[guest4091]

The combination of letters ... table ,,, is the name of what?
There is no answer in words, because every word is just a name.
The only answer is this.
Point to "something" and say:
The combination of letters ...  table ... it's the name of this.
Whoever hears the answer ... looks at this thing and knows
He can also touch this thing,
That's how you know,


A similar answer should be related to the combination of the letters .......matter

You are discussing knowledge by association, language, written or spoken, corresponding to objects or behavior. This is what is typically done when learning a foreign language or for an infant learning the local language. It is not any type of revelation, and has been studied and applied for ages.

[aetzbar (OP)]

The novelty is that man gives names to his natural knowledge.
Hot, cold, shape, light, quantity, are the names of natural knowledge
Natural knowledge can not be explained in words.
An ancient man who approached the fire obtained a natural knowledge.
What he had to do was to choose a sound that would serve as the name of this natural knowledge.

[David Cooper]

Axiom: It is impossible to study a language, using its words.

You're not entirely wrong. It would be possible to teach someone a language without telling them what any of the words mean (although they'd need to have the patience of a god to do it, but you could also do it with a computer). If they then try to use that language to analyse that language, they won't get anywhere because none of it is meaningful to them. If they already know another language and understand what all the words mean, they could potentially use that language in analysing the new one (which they don't understand at all), but it is not just the language that they are using - it is thought that they are applying, and that requires an understanding of the meanings and an ability to simulate them.

Incidentally, it may be possible to decode the new language and fit meaning to it just by looking at its transformation rules and comparing the patterns with an understood language, so if an AGI system of ours was to meet an alien AGI system, they might be able to work out how to communicate with each other just by comparing languages (and the transformation rules) without exchanging any meanings at all. It would of course be quicker if they exchanged meanings too, and they could do that just by providing images to illustrate words and actions. Some of the more abstract words would be harder, but they'd mop up all the problem words later on, the whole process perhaps taking just a few minutes of processing.

[aetzbar (OP)]

There is no such thing .... to interpret words
Each word is just a combination of letters.
The only function of a letter combination ... is just a name
A language researcher should ask one question.
This letter combination (****) is the name of what?
If he got the answer, he cracked the language.
This answer is of an act that brings natural knowledge.

[Bored chemist]

An ordinary mathematician, do not know that pi changes.
A regular physicist does not know that there are only two quantitative things in the world, and they are time and energy.
An ordinary physicist, did not recognize the passive energy.
An ordinary linguist does not know that the only function that combinations of letters can fulfill is the role of names.
Human language is a language of names.

A competent mathematician knows that pi is constant. If he didn't  already know t, he would after seeing the proofs given in your other thread.
A competent physicist can do dimensional analysis and would recognise the reasonable- but not unique- choice of fundamental units employed by the SI.
A competent physicist knows that energy and weight aren't the same thing.

You are not a competent physicist or mathematician.

[Bored chemist]

Axiom: It is impossible to study a language, using its words.

You just did.

[paulggriffiths]

Did you know if you rotate uppercase letters anticlockwise 90° you get ancient symbols?

D is morning sun.
 
So PAUL reads "Tomorrow you will see you're way back to heaven".

Or as is there jungle directions:
J is don't change paths.
Uppercase are warnings, and lowercase are sights to see.
Never did finish it off... though as it's a jungle... should you follow the advice?

[guest39538]

How do we get out of the trap of human language?

By the use of maths and formula.

[aetzbar (OP)]

It is true that the language of numbers is an understandable language, because it is a quantitative language.
All humans have a natural knowledge of quantity.

[guest39538]

It is true that the language of numbers is an understandable language, because it is a quantitative language.
All humans have a natural knowledge of quantity.

Likewise though humans have from basic education the understanding of words, but the problem is when definition has several meanings for the same word.  The trap I see is ambiguity when using words.   However we could remove this trap by adding a quantity to the word that then describes the context we mean it. 

In example I will use the word force.

{quote]force1
fɔːs/Submit
noun
1.
strength or energy as an attribute of physical action or movement.
"he was thrown backwards by the force of the explosion"
synonyms:   strength, power, energy, might, potency, vigour, muscle, stamina, effort, exertion, impact, pressure, weight, impetus; informalpunch
"Eddie delivered a blow with all his force"
2.
coercion or compulsion, especially with the use or threat of violence.
"they ruled by law and not by force"
synonyms:   coercion, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, pressure, pressurization, influence; More
verb
1.
make a way through or into by physical strength; break open by force.
"the back door of the bank was forced"
synonyms:   break open, force open, burst open, prise open, kick in, knock down, blast; crack
"the doors had to be forced"
2.
make (someone) do something against their will.
"she was forced into early retirement"
synonyms:   compel, coerce, make, constrain, oblige, impel, drive, necessitate, pressurize, pressure, press, push; More[/quote]

In the quoted 4 explanations for one word.  So if when writing we also added  quantity to the word , we remove the trap

I.e I can not (noun 2) force you in to accepting this.   But by adding a quantity into the language you know the definition of force I am referring to .

[aetzbar (OP)]

In my opinion, your approach is very interesting and correct.
Do you accept the idea that any combination of letters in human language is just a name.
So, the only question is ... the name of what?
This question can not be answered in words, because every word is only a name.
This situation can be solved, with an act that brings to natural knowledge.
The name of natural knowledge, is a revolutionary idea.
There are names of "things", there are names of "actions" and there are names of natural knowledge, such as light, hot, rough,
Time, quantity, shape,

[guest39538]

Do you accept the idea that any combination of letters in human language is just a name.
So, the only question is ... the name of what?

It is the name of what ever we decide it is.  For instant a Hammer, we call it a Hammer , we learn children the ''Hammer'' is named a Hammer. The correct name would be a formation of atoms with a good density that we use for hitting things like such as a nail.  However that would be long winded so we shorten down to a generalised term and call it a Hammer.
However Imagine a Hammer that was made of crystal or glass.  Would it still be a Hammer?   The uses have changed so why call it a Hammer?

But in general we just name things so we all have the same idea of what a Hammer is. I think things are named by shape and use although the name given is not normally the use or shape.

[Colin2B]

The correct name would be a formation of atoms with a good density that we use for hitting things like such as a nail. 

I call that a brick.

[aetzbar (OP)]

A natural process following the expression ... The name of this thing is a tree.
The look reveals the shape of the tree.
Touching the trunk reveals that it is rough
Bending a branch requires tiring muscle action.
These actions brought to the doer a natural knowledge.
Shape is the name of natural knowledge.
Rough is the name of natural knowledge,
And fatigue is the name of natural knowledge.
The natural knowledge of man allows him to create a language of names.

[Bored chemist]

These actions brought to the doer a natural knowledge.

In what sense is this "natural"?
If it was natural, surely I'd not need to touch the branch to know it was rough etc.

[aetzbar (OP)]

Touching the tree trunk brings you natural knowledge.
What you do is give this natural knowledge.
The name is just a combination of letters.
If I ask you, what did you know in the footsteps of the tree trunk? You will not be able to explain to me in words.
If I do a simple act of touching the trunk of the tree, I too will get a natural knowledge.
If I get the name you gave to this natural knowledge, we already have a language.
Human language is a language of names. Each letter combination is just a name.

[Bored chemist]

Touching the tree trunk brings you natural knowledge.

What other sort of knowledge is there?

[aetzbar (OP)]

The ancient man saw a wolf and another wolf and another wolf ....
He also saw a rock and another rock and another rock and another rock.
And he also noticed the step, and another step, another step, another step, and another step.
Then he knew that he knew a wonderful natural knowledge.
Oddly enough, he knew that he could give a name to this wonderful knowledge
And he gave the name QUQU

[Bored chemist]

natural knowledge.

What other sort of knowledge is there?

[aetzbar (OP)]

Do you understand the trap of words? In the wake of an actual act that man does, natural knowledge comes to him.
He knows, but he can not deliver this knowledge, with words.
With repeated muscle action, the person climbs steps.
Every muscle action is tiring.
Fatigue is the name of natural knowledge, which can not be delivered with words.
Anyone who wants to achieve this natural knowledge has to climb many steps.
Fatigue is quantitative, from which we reach the concept of energy