[Tanny (OP)]

Are UFOs real?  Are people who report sightings seeing something that is actually there?  Or is this whole phenomena just a massive pile of confusion and hype?

I used to be a skeptic, because I've met a lot of spacey hippy types in my time who would believe literally anything, and so I assumed the UFO issue was just more of the same.

But, I'm an avid watcher of documentaries on the video streaming services (amazon, hulu and netflix), so for fun I started checking out the UFO documentaries.  It won't surprise you to hear that most of these "documentaries" are just a pile of hyped up crap, which you could only enjoy if you were really stoned and wanted some laughs.

However, in the pile of crap I have found three quality documentaries which have changed my mind on this subject, and I thought I would link to them here to start a discussion.

Out Of The Blue
https://www.amazon.com/UFOTV-Presents-Blue-Definitive-Investigation/dp/B00M5KDGSQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1508665260&sr=1-2&keywords=ufo

UFOs and Nukes
https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Nukes-Secret-Link-Revealed/dp/B06XWPK9RK/ref=sr_1_3?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1508665260&sr=1-3&keywords=ufo

UFOs The Secret History
https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Michael-D-Swords-PhD/dp/B01N2NYFCE/ref=sr_1_13?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1508665260&sr=1-13&keywords=ufo

If you are a skeptic like I used to be, I'd urge you to watch these films before demanding evidence and such, because these films are crammed with credible evidence.  As example, I just finished UFOs and Nukes, and the entire thing is interviews with military officers with high security clearances, those with access to nuclear weapons.  Point being, these are not spacey hippies or hillbillies drinking moonshine in the swamp etc.

What I'm not yet convinced of is that the UFOs are aliens from other planets.  It seems far more likely to me that they are future humans who have discovered time travel.  Yes, I know, that sounds wacky.  But after you watch those three films you too will be looking for some explanation, and all of them will be wacky.

[Tanny (OP)]

Out Of The Blue  is on YouTube.   

--------------

There are trailers for "UFOs and Nukes" on YouTube, but I don't see the full film.   However, there is a 90 minute National Press Club press conference by some of the same people on the same subject. 

----------------

UFOs The Secret History is on YouTube

[Tanny (OP)]

The question that arises here is, how do we define credible evidence? 

Do I have to see a UFO myself to believe they exist?  Or am I willing to accept reports from other people?   If the later, what quantity and quality of reports rise to the level of being credible?  Who am I willing to believe?

What interested me about the three documentaries listed above is that they contained a substantial number of witnesses which seemed credible.  Airline pilots, military pilots, air traffic controllers, the head of Belgium's air defense command, leading French national security officials, the Governor of Arizona, nuclear missile launch officers, nuclear missile repair techs, Russian and American astronauts, security guards at major nuclear weapons bases and so on. 

Reports from the general public take on an air of credibility when multiple unrelated people at different locations report the same event at the same time.  An example of this is the Phoenix Lights incidents.   Hundreds of citizens in various parts of Phoenix Arizona were outside on a clear night with binoculars to see a passing comet.   What they saw instead was a huge triangular craft move slowly and noiselessly over the city.

Sometimes credibility arises just by using our BS detectors while watching the faces of those making reports.  Three security officers at a U.S. nuclear weapons base in England claimed to have walked up to and touched a small landed UFO.  I leaned in to the TV and watched them closely while they reported the event.  They just didn't seem like crackpots or liars to me, and it's doubtful they would have had those jobs if they were.

And then, a tiny UFO flew up my nose, took over my brain, and flashed an important message from Elvis, which I can't reveal because it's highly classified!!! 

Well, ok, not that last part.  Just testing to see if anyone is paying attention.  :-)

[Tanny (OP)]

After you watch the videos above you may find yourself asking...

What if the UFO believers are basically right (that something extraordinary is going on) and....

...the science community has turned up it's nose and rolled it's eyes at this subject all along, considering the topic beneath it's dignity to discuss?

What would happen to the cultural authority of scientists if undeniable proof of "aliens" on our planet should emerge?  The biggest story in human history, and the scientists missed it, because they refused to look.  How would that impact the reputation of science?

Wait, it gets worse.  Should this happen, not only will the science community be shown to have ignored this huge phenomena, but there will be new higher ranking experts in town, the "aliens", or future humans, or whatever they are.   What would our relationship with scientists be if there was another source of much better information?

I'm not saying this will happen, obviously I don't know.  But it seems a very interesting cultural question to wonder what would happen if it did. 

[Tanny (OP)]

Hello, and welcome back to the most popular forum thread of all time.  Well, I mean, if we count all the aliens who are reading this thread via telepathy.  :-) 

Seriously, today I wanted to discuss my primary reservation about the UFO aliens hypothesis.  Why is it ALWAYS assumed that whoever is piloting the UFOs are alien lifeforms from somewhere across the galaxy???

It's credible to propose that there are alien civilizations which can do interstellar travel, because there could easily be civilizations a billion years older than us.  But why would such creatures be interested in us?

Second, those who claim to have seen aliens always describe them as having a humanoid form.  What are the chances that an alien species from across the galaxy would have evolved in to a humanoid type form??  As example, of all the millions of species to evolve on Earth, how many of them have a humanoid type form??

If the UFO phenomena is real, isn't it far more likely that we are being visited by future humans?  All this theory requires is that we learn time travel at some point in human history.   Future humans  would be interested in us, and would likely have a humanoid type physical form.

As I watch the documentaries listed above, I find myself increasingly frustrated that this theory is never even mentioned.  It makes me question the reasoning powers of everyone involved, and keeps some level of skepticism alive.

[Tanny (OP)]

Now that I can post links I've updated a post above so that you can watch the videos I'm referring to right here in the thread.  Of course no one is obligated to do so, but if you don't watch the vids, you just might miss the most important story in human history.  Just sayin...  :-)

If you don't watch the videos, it might be because the scientific community has not put their stamp of approval on this subject. The reason for that is that the UFO issue is a lose/lose proposition for scientists. 

1) If no UFOs or aliens exist, then obviously a scientist would be wasting their time, and suffering a credibility hit as well.  The scientist loses.

2) If aliens do exist here on Earth, then a much more powerful source of information about reality may soon be available, which will deflate the cultural authority that scientists enjoy today.  The scientist loses here too.

The only way the UFO story is a winner for scientists is if it's a bunch of nothing, and the scientists can say "we told you so".   Investigating the issue raises the risk that it might turn out not to be a bunch of nothing, so, no investigation.

Is there conclusive proof that can settle the UFO question once and for all?  Obviously not.   Is there sufficient evidence available to justify taking the UFO issue more seriously than we typically do?  Imho, yes, there is.  To see that evidence, watch the videos. 

[guest39538]

Are UFOs real?

Are UFO's real?  I do not think anyone says they are not real, however unidentified playing a key role here.  We have not really established flying saucers.   Are flying saucers real?  Unproven.

p.s 90% are ''trolls'' on here, just bored with life and nothing better to do.

[Tanny (OP)]

p.s 90% are ''trolls'' on here, just bored with life and nothing better to do.

Ha,  I must be one of the 90% or I wouldn't be wasting so much time here. Ok, all forums are dead or dying, not news really.  I just forget every so often.  Well, it's time for me to be abducted back up in to the Mother Ship.   Have fun all, see ya around... 

[guest39538]

p.s 90% are ''trolls'' on here, just bored with life and nothing better to do.

Ha,  I must be one of the 90% or I wouldn't be wasting so much time here. Ok, all forums are dead or dying, not news really.  I just forget every so often.  Well, it's time for me to be abducted back up in to the Mother Ship.   Have fun all, see ya around... 

I think you would be in the 10% because quite clearly you do have an interest in science by the effort you put in.  Forums are only dying because most of them have strange moderation and can be rather boring places to be involved in.
If forums want more viewers and participants it is not difficult to do.  Competitions and sponsored prizes would get an interest.

[Tanny (OP)]

Please address any further correspondence to me at my new location.  Thank you. 

[alancalverd]

There's nothing essentially weird about a UFO report. All it means is that someone has seen something in the sky that he didn't expect and can't identify, which I guess is fairly commonplace.

Matters get more interesting when several people see the same thing and nobody can identify or explain it, and my interest is strongly piqued if said UFO (which it now clearly is, by definition) is independently observed by radar, photographed, experienced at close range, or tracked by observers over a significant time or distance. This puts the Bentwaters UFO into the "very interesting" category, alongside a 1998 Heathrow "near miss" UFO that was seen by two pilots but not reported by radar: given the intensity of radar scrutiny around  Heathrow, that is decidedly odd.

[Tanny (OP)]

What's turning me around and making me more open to the UFO topic is the sheer volume of reports from credible sources.  The videos above are filled with them, and after awhile it becomes increasingly difficult to dismiss them all.

There are different levels of the story to consider. 

I'm now pretty much convinced that there are objects flying around which no one can identify.  I see enough evidence to justify leaning hard in that direction.

But the question of who or what is directing these craft seems entirely open, and I'm still quite suspicious of theories like "it must be aliens from another planet".  I prefer a future humans theory, but there's nothing substantial to support that either.   There's a lot of interesting speculation about who the pilots are, but so far it seems that's all it is.

The next level is the issue of abductions.  I'm holding off on any opinion here, other than whatever the explanation for these reports is it seems to qualify as interesting.  You know, even if it's just hallucinations it's a lot of hallucinations, so that seems interesting to me.  As best I can tell, many or most of the people making these reports are very sincere, and they at least believe it happened, whether it did or not.  There are Parts 2 and 3 of UFOs The Secret History which go in to this subject in a lot more detail. 

[jeffreyH]

It is easy to get carried away by the conspiracy noise that overwhelms rational thought.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident

[jeffreyH]

If you want to search for information on science then the web is a good place to try first. You can fairly easily find something reliable. Trying the same to find ufo evidence is a total waste of time. That is the problem with conspiracy nuts. They polute the sources of reliable information. So if there is actually something unexplained and of interest it is buried in the haystack of nonsense.

[The Spoon]

What's turning me around and making me more open to the UFO topic is the sheer volume of reports from credible sources.  The videos above are filled with them, and after awhile it becomes increasingly difficult to dismiss them all.

There are different levels of the story to consider. 

I'm now pretty much convinced that there are objects flying around which no one can identify.  I see enough evidence to justify leaning hard in that direction.

But the question of who or what is directing these craft seems entirely open, and I'm still quite suspicious of theories like "it must be aliens from another planet".  I prefer a future humans theory, but there's nothing substantial to support that either.   There's a lot of interesting speculation about who the pilots are, but so far it seems that's all it is.

The next level is the issue of abductions.  I'm holding off on any opinion here, other than whatever the explanation for these reports is it seems to qualify as interesting.  You know, even if it's just hallucinations it's a lot of hallucinations, so that seems interesting to me.  As best I can tell, many or most of the people making these reports are very sincere, and they at least believe it happened, whether it did or not.  There are Parts 2 and 3 of UFOs The Secret History which go in to this subject in a lot more detail. 

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself as opposed to view these videos critically. 

[Tanny (OP)]

It is easy to get carried away by the conspiracy noise that overwhelms rational thought.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident

One of the videos above (Out Of The Blue I think...) shows interviews with the primary witnesses, who claim to have walked around and touched a landed UFO for about 15 minutes.  These witnesses were security personnel for a major nuclear weapons base, it was their job to investigate any possible threat to the base.

After watching the video, only two conclusions are possible.  They saw the UFO as claimed, or they have been deliberately lying all along since the beginning.  Their reports are too specific and in too much detail to be explained as a case of mis-identification, confusion, light house in the distance etc.   

They either saw and touched a landed UFO, or they decided to risk years in prison to perpetrate a hoax upon their military superiors.  It's one or the other.

As example, Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is probably soon going to get a long prison sentence, maybe life, for walking away from his unit in Afghanistan.  The consequences for a military security officer on a nuclear weapons base perpetrating a UFO hoax while in uniform would likely be severe.

After watching the interviews with the primary witnesses I concluded they were telling the truth.  I  have no proof of course, all I have is 65 years of practice at smelling out BS on people's faces.  Didn't see it in this case.

[Tanny (OP)]

If you want to search for information on science then the web is a good place to try first. You can fairly easily find something reliable. Trying the same to find ufo evidence is a total waste of time. That is the problem with conspiracy nuts. They polute the sources of reliable information. So if there is actually something unexplained and of interest it is buried in the haystack of nonsense.

Well, the point of posting the videos above is to help readers focus on sources that seem credible.  I agree there is a TON of BS hype in the UFO field, I really do, and have already said so above.   But the BS is allowed to continue because the scientific community is apparently too chicken to do a serious investigation which could sweep much of the BS aside.  The general public is now leading the investigation simply because the science community has abandoned their post, on this issue.

Point being, it's not a waste of time to look for credible UFO information, you apparently just haven't bothered to do the homework, even when handed to you on silver platter in this thread.

[Tanny (OP)]

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself as opposed to view these videos critically.

I'm reporting where I am at the moment on this issue, and have provided the information that brought me to my current perspective on the issue so that readers can examine it for themselves.   

If readers actually watch the videos and still remain cynics, ok, that's their call, no problem.  I'm not claiming the videos represent the absolute truth, only that they are worth watching.   If readers don't bother to watch the videos and still want to act like they are critical thinkers who have examined the evidence, expect me to comment upon that.

What I am viewing critically in both of my threads (see the thread about Knowledge Explosion) is the scientific community.  I  have no personal beef with scientists, as they seem smart people of good intentions doing the job we hired them to do, and doing it well.   However, it's quite possible they are totally dropping the ball on two of the biggest stories of our time, and that possibility seems worth examining.

[guest39538]

doing the job we hired them to do, and doing it well. 

So who are we?   You claim that yourself is in involvement in the hiring of scientists, I assume you must be a politician?

[guest39538]

They saw the UFO as claimed, or they have been deliberately lying all along since the beginning.

The problem you are ignoring is the very fact that if something is identified, it is no longer a UFO. So to claim to have  touched a UFO is a lie.