[aetzbar (OP)]

Research question: Can energy from the sun reach Earth when space is empty?

[alancalverd]

It appears to have done so quite successfully for several billion years. It's all in the definition of radiation.

[guest39538]

It appears to have done so quite successfully for several billion years. It's all in the definition of radiation.

pE c reaches the earth where by interaction is converted into heat energy by kE friction ?

[evan_au]

pE c reaches the earth where by interaction is converted into heat energy by kE friction ?

Deciphering this, I am guessing that it is trying to say "Photons reach the earth where by interaction is converted into heat energy by friction ?"...

When we feel heat (eg from a fire), we are actually feeling the effect of infra-red photons striking our skin.
- The Sun, with a surface temperature around 5000K emits most* of its energy as infra-red photons.
- These strike our skin and we feel it as heat.
- No need for any friction with the photons from the Sun to convert them into heat.
- The heat we feel from the Sun is the same kind of heat we feel from a log fire
- If an astronaut in the vacuum of space were unfortunate enough to lose his or her spacesuit, their skin would be struck by the heat of the Sun (and its UV too, in addition to suffering decompression and asphyxia). No need of a medium to carry the Sun's heat to their skin.

*Actually, the Sun produces a lot of its energy in the form of neutrinos, but we normally ignore them, because they pretty much ignore us.

[guest39538]

Photons reach the earth where by interaction is converted into heat energy by friction ?

Almost , photons are potential energy that reach the earth where by interaction they excite the atom which incur creates an action that creates heat.
A photon has no mechanism to retain heat, but it has the pE to create heat by atomic excitement of the reactant?

The atom responds to pE(c)?

[guest39538]

The heat we feel from the Sun is the same kind of heat we feel from a log fire

You feel the energy in the air interacting with your skin, have you not heard of sun burn?  Sun burn is because the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)

[Bogie_smiles]

Research question: Can energy from the sun reach Earth when space is empty?

Yes, it can, and there has been some appropriate rephrasing of your reply #2. Photons are emitted at the speed of light, and the speed of light is governed by some characteristics of otherwise empty space; permeability and permittivity. However, being in the "New Theories" sub-forum, which allows alternative ideas, my response is that space is never empty, and so the question is moot.

Space is filled with photons coming and going, both as particles and as light waves. In addition, recent discoveries show that there are gravitational waves in space, and presumably they are coming and going in all directions too, though difficult to detect. Space is filled with wave energy, and so energy from the sun, in the form of radiation, is traversing the wave energy density of space between the sun and the Earth.

[aetzbar (OP)]

To the best of my understanding, there must be a medium between the earth and the sun.
This medium is not material, and it must be a complete resting place.
I offered as a mediator, the passive time.
In the middle there will be waves of passive time (PTW), and they will transfer energy from the sun to Earth.
Passive time fills the infinite space, and emptiness does not exist.
Passive time is measured while moving inside, and you have to get 0.0033 microseconds in each direction.
Passive time creates new physics.

[Bogie_smiles]

Can energy from the sun reach Earth when space is empty?

To the best of my understanding, there must be a medium between the earth and the sun.
This medium is not material, and it must be a complete resting place.

It is an old question, and I don’t need to explore that science history, the various experiment like MM, and others which can be Googled, except to say that the question hasn’t gone away. I described what I think could be called the basic “medium of space” in reply #6.


Photons are emitted at the speed of light into space, and it is generally accepted that the speed of light in a vacuum is governed by some characteristics of otherwise empty space; permeability and permittivity. They limit the speed of light through a vacuum, so they are not your normal characteristics of the space around us that is filled with light and gravity waves, and the occasional atom and molecule; our surrounding space is simply not a vacuum. Perfect vacuums are hard to find, but the better the vacuum, the closer the local speed of light is to “c”.


Permittivity and permeability have a mathematical relationship in the Coulomb force, that is associated with electric point charges, positive and negative, in any combination, +-, ++, or - -. From a layman perspective, they are technical, and special in that they apply to otherwise empty space, and so in a near vacuum, or in air, or water or glass, light can travel at different velocities, as quantified by the refractive index. But the velocity of light cannot exceed ~186,000 miles per second, ~300,000,000 meters/second, or “c”. So permittivity and permeability govern the maximum speed of light, but other occupants of space come into play. Normally, those other aspects, wave energy from light and gravity, have an infinitesimal impact on the speed of light in the normal spaces we encounter around us.


Never-the-less, in various high energy environments and surrounding various cataclysmic events and super massive objects, the wave energy density content of the local space can have a significant effect on the velocity of light. It is even generally accepted that light cannot escape from the vicinity of the event horizon of a black hole, where the wave energy density of space must approach its peak.

I offered as a mediator, the passive time.
In the middle there will be waves of passive time (PTW), and they will transfer energy from the sun to Earth.

I get what you mean, and your are putting that into a context the necessitates entirely new thinking as opposed to generally accepted science.


I want to explain to you that my own musings are also outside the box, but they always have a connection to known science, and are only speculations made in order to satisfy my own compulsion to understand the gaps in known science. That means that there is a large part of physics that is known, and that I rely on, and those things are the same from theory to theory. Then there is theoretical physics that is theory specific, which I don’t automatically rely on.


I fill the gaps in the “as yet” unknown by adding my own ideas, that I think are consistent with those aspects of physics that are the same from theory to theory, and don’t automatically invoke the whole of theoretical physics.


If you consider my participation in your threads to be out of line, or hijacking, just say so, and I won’t do it.

Passive time fills the infinite space, and emptiness does not exist.

I’m beginning to understand how you use the phrase, “passive time”, but I don’t want to have to construct a whole new context around it, so I try to talk around it by trying to be clear about alternative ways to look at it.

Passive time is measured while moving inside, and you have to get 0.0033 microseconds in each direction.

Your reference to moving inside passive time equated to my reference to photons, light wave energy, and gravitational wave energy traversing the “medium of space” as defined above.


Would you mind saying how the .0033 microseconds figure was derived?

Passive time creates new physics.

To say the least, lol. Actually you will be in position of creating that new “theoretically physics”, but it will be quite out of tune with generally accepted science, people who have put in the rigor to be up to speed on science will simply not be receptive.

[aetzbar (OP)]

My basic idea, is that there is in physical reality, only 5 quantitative things.
Length, area, volume, time and energy.
"Quantitative thing" is measured, and so he entered the Hall of Science.

The material is the great physical unknown, and its creation must be explained only with time and energy.
Here comes the great innovation of passive time, which fills the infinite space.
The material is created by the merging of passive time and energy.
Now it is possible to write a new physics theory, after Newton and Einstein

[guest39538]

My basic idea, is that there is in physical reality, only 5 quantitative things.
Length, area, volume, time and energy.
"Quantitative thing" is measured, and so he entered the Hall of Science.

The material is the great physical unknown, and its creation must be explained only with time and energy.
Here comes the great innovation of passive time, which fills the infinite space.
The material is created by the merging of passive time and energy.
Now it is possible to write a new physics theory, after Newton and Einstein

You have so much to learn , your programming is malfunctioning.

[guest39538]

To the best of my understanding, there must be a medium between the earth and the sun.
This medium is not material, and it must be a complete resting place.
I offered as a mediator, the passive time.
In the middle there will be waves of passive time (PTW), and they will transfer energy from the sun to Earth.
Passive time fills the infinite space, and emptiness does not exist.
Passive time is measured while moving inside, and you have to get 0.0033 microseconds in each direction.
Passive time creates new physics.

7 lines

[guest39538]

My basic idea, is that there is in physical reality, only 5 quantitative things.
Length, area, volume, time and energy.
"Quantitative thing" is measured, and so he entered the Hall of Science.

The material is the great physical unknown, and its creation must be explained only with time and energy.
Here comes the great innovation of passive time, which fills the infinite space.
The material is created by the merging of passive time and energy.
Now it is possible to write a new physics theory, after Newton and Einstein

7 lines

[evan_au]

You feel the energy in the air interacting with your skin, have you not heard of sun burn?  Sun burn is because the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)

I'm afraid that this is not correct. You can suffer sunburn when the air temperature is very low (eg in the snow).

Sunburn is caused by UV light causing uncorrectable errors in the DNA, which causes the skin cells to die. The immune system then moves in to clean up the dead cells, causing the inflammation of sunburn.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn

[guest39538]

You feel the energy in the air interacting with your skin, have you not heard of sun burn?  Sun burn is because the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)

I'm afraid that this is not correct. You can suffer sunburn when the air temperature is very low (eg in the snow).

Sunburn is caused by UV light causing uncorrectable errors in the DNA, which causes the skin cells to die. The immune system then moves in to clean up the dead cells, causing the inflammation of sunburn.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn

Are you saying UV is not energy?

[Bored chemist]

You feel the energy in the air interacting with your skin, have you not heard of sun burn?  Sun burn is because the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)

I'm afraid that this is not correct. You can suffer sunburn when the air temperature is very low (eg in the snow).

Sunburn is caused by UV light causing uncorrectable errors in the DNA, which causes the skin cells to die. The immune system then moves in to clean up the dead cells, causing the inflammation of sunburn.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn

Are you saying UV is not energy?

No
He never said anything like that.
What he said was that this
" the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)"
is wrong because that's not what happens when you get sunburn.

Were you trying to forma strawman argument there?

[guest39538]

You feel the energy in the air interacting with your skin, have you not heard of sun burn?  Sun burn is because the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)

I'm afraid that this is not correct. You can suffer sunburn when the air temperature is very low (eg in the snow).

Sunburn is caused by UV light causing uncorrectable errors in the DNA, which causes the skin cells to die. The immune system then moves in to clean up the dead cells, causing the inflammation of sunburn.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn

Are you saying UV is not energy?

No
He never said anything like that.
What he said was that this
" the energy magnitude is causing ''friction'' burns. (kE excitement)"
is wrong because that's not what happens when you get sunburn.

Were you trying to forma strawman argument there?

Not a straw man argument, a valued point, UV is pE.  Without a reactant , (skin) there is no interaction.  I think we are saying the same thing, but my thoughts are my thoughts where Evan's thoughts are of present information, so he presents that way where I present it differently .
I do not mean friction in a sense of two surfaces rubbing together, I mean friction of the molecules rubbing together to create heat.
A Physics/chemistry mix.

[Bored chemist]

I mean friction of the molecules rubbing together to create heat.

So, not actually friction.
Why use the word for something that it doesn't mean?
Are trying to be unclear?

[Petrochemicals]

Its quite matter of fact and accepted that its radiation, but when you think about it radiation is a  very strange phenomenon. When a piece of matter cannot loose energy any other way and energies reach a critical level, matter emmits energy in the only way it can, by a spontaneus burst of radiation. Its like gravity, widely accepted, but very strange when viewed in scientific sense, so i think your question is a good one. It emmits energy as q particle in wave form (photon) that c9nverts back to energy when striking another piece of matter, thus giving it energy. There are more mysteries to light yet to be told, the double slit experiment, its unchanging speed, its duality.

Why does the sun emmit so little energy ? Its atmosphere is not as hot as a lightning bolt, yet the vast mass of it is incredibly hot, far hotter than hot iron, yet it glows the same colour, and emmits radiation slowly? Space is cold even by the suns surface temperature, yet so little is emmitted.

[Bored chemist]

Why does the sun emmit so little energy ?

You think 10^25 Watts is a "little energy"?

The sun emits very nearly  as much energy as you would expect for a black body object of that temperature.

Would I be right in thinking  you don't really know what you are talking about?