Where's the salt in frozen sea water ?

neilep · « **on:** 12/04/2007 00:45:46 »

When sea water freezes...does salt come along for the ride and get trapped within it ?

If not...what is the process for the exodus of salt from salt water as it freezes ?

WylieE · « **Reply #1 on:** 12/04/2007 01:21:28 »

Hi Neil,
When water freezes, the salt (to some extent - depending on the speed that the water freezes) gets squeezed out because the salt does not fit well into the crystal structure of ice. Water that is less salty freezes before water that is more salty. So as some water freezes, the part that is left gets more salty and takes lower temperature to freeze. This process repeats and repeats till you are left with pockets of unfrozen water that are high in salt concentration. These occur in the permafrost and are where some very cold- tolerant bacteria can live. These bacteria also have to tolerate high salt levels too.
Colleen

neilep · « **Reply #2 on:** 12/04/2007 01:46:14 »

THANK YOU so much Colleen !! (Hiya by the way)

So, if I were to saturate some hot water with as much salt as it could take...and then froze it ...would I be left with some salty deposits once I emptied the ice out ?....

paul.fr · « **Reply #3 on:** 12/04/2007 04:25:55 »

Nooooooooooooooo

i always wanted to post "actually, Neil. i believe i answered this in this topic...ages ago...ha ha...blah blah"

and i did but can' remember where! [:-'(]

neilep · « **Reply #4 on:** 12/04/2007 04:35:55 »

Quote from: paul.fr on 12/04/2007 04:25:55

Nooooooooooooooo

i always wanted to post "actually, Neil. i believe i answered this in this topic...ages ago...ha ha...blah blah"

and i did but can' remember where! [:-'(]

Really ? ......you answered it elsewhere ? ( I have said ' really ' to you quite a few times today/yesterday) [

]

If you can find it I'd also like to read it !.... [

]

that mad man · « **Reply #5 on:** 12/04/2007 16:12:30 »

One thing to notice is that icebergs are made of fresh water!

Like Colleen says the salt get concentrated to such an extent that it will not freeze. A similar thing happens with water mixed with alcohol, the water will freezes but the alcohol stays liquid.

Freeze some wine and the alcohol will separate.

TMM

Seany · « **Reply #6 on:** 12/04/2007 16:14:41 »

Quote from: that mad man on 12/04/2007 16:12:30

One thing to notice is that icebergs are made of fresh water!

Like Colleen says the salt get concentrated to such an extent that it will not freeze. A similar thing happens with water mixed with alcohol, the water will freezes but the alcohol stays liquid.

Freeze some wine and the alcohol will separate.

TMM

Icebergs are made of fresh water? [

]

neilep · « **Reply #7 on:** 12/04/2007 16:16:59 »

Quote from: that mad man on 12/04/2007 16:12:30

One thing to notice is that icebergs are made of fresh water!

Like Colleen says the salt get concentrated to such an extent that it will not freeze. A similar thing happens with water mixed with alcohol, the water will freezes but the alcohol stays liquid.

Freeze some wine and the alcohol will separate.

TMM

THANKS YOU TMM,

As a firm believer in empirical study I will do this..I will freeze some wine and some salt water and report what happens !

Karen W. · « **Reply #8 on:** 12/04/2007 16:19:43 »

Alcohol usually gets slushie but not solid EH? As I recall that is the case!

neilep · « **Reply #9 on:** 12/04/2007 16:34:10 »

Well here is the preliminary stages of my Nobel prize winning experiment into freezing wine and salt water...

me will report the results later tonight:

"We're going into the freezer...we maybe some time"

that mad man · « **Reply #10 on:** 12/04/2007 17:28:35 »

Yep, icebergs are made of fresh water.

Before the advent of refrigerators or freezers American ships sailed to cold places to collect lumps of ice. There was a captain who used to ship them home for use and became rich and famous in a short while. He had lots of disasters too and was almost bankrupt at one time. It was a short lived lucrative trade until the science of freezing took hold.

I have not done it with salt water but have with a bottle of cheap wine transferred to a plastic container and sealed.

I'm not sure if doing it with a ice maker tray will work, probably better to put it into a small 100ml sealed plastic bottle. Any alcohol can then be poured off or just thaw and shake and you have wine again.

I will await the outcome with pleasure!

[

]"We're going into the freezer...we maybe some time" LOL [

]

TMM

paul.fr · « **Reply #11 on:** 12/04/2007 17:43:40 »

Quote from: that mad man on 12/04/2007 17:28:35

Yep, icebergs are made of fresh water.

Before the advent of refrigerators or freezers American ships sailed to cold places to collect lumps of ice. There was a captain who used to ship them home for use and became rich and famous in a short while. He had lots of disasters too and was almost bankrupt at one time. It was a short lived lucrative trade until the science of freezing took hold.

I have not done it with salt water but have with a bottle of cheap wine transferred to a plastic container and sealed.

I'm not sure if doing it with a ice maker tray will work, probably better to put it into a small 100ml sealed plastic bottle. Any alcohol can then be poured off or just thaw and shake and you have wine again.

I will await the outcome with pleasure!

[]"We're going into the freezer...we maybe some time" LOL []

TMM

TMM, how did the celebrating go?

by the way, fancy writing that up as an experiment and posting it?

Seany · « **Reply #12 on:** 12/04/2007 17:46:33 »

Yup, I'll be waiting for your results Neil!

that mad man · « **Reply #13 on:** 12/04/2007 20:32:20 »

Thanks paul.fr,

Drank over half bottle of some nice single malt whisky and had a listen to some oldy music, not much celebrating though [:I]

Glad to write it up, it will be fun! [

]

Tomorrow I will get a bottle of red wine and do the experiment.

Note to self:

Don't drink it all first!

TMM

WylieE · « **Reply #14 on:** 12/04/2007 20:41:50 »

Too bad about alcohol not freezing-
I could just imagine- Icebergs made of whiskey. . . .
I'll have one of Tully and Middleton and an Oban. . .
mmmmmmmm

Batroost · « **Reply #15 on:** 13/04/2007 21:21:20 »

Be careful...

Icebergs are made of fresh water, but that's usually because they've fallen off ('calved') from the leading edge of glaciers i.e. formed from snow on land.

Sea-ice tends not to be thick enough to form icebergs, though it can crumple up a bit.

neilep · « **Reply #16 on:** 13/04/2007 21:45:25 »

posting results in a few mins....I got side tracked .....fancy that eh ?

Seany · « **Reply #17 on:** 13/04/2007 21:52:12 »

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm really curious of the outcome neil! [

]

neilep · « **Reply #18 on:** 13/04/2007 21:55:27 »

just doing it now....gimmee a minute !!

Seany · « **Reply #19 on:** 13/04/2007 21:56:25 »

I think a minute has passed

Where's the salt in frozen sea water ?

neilep (OP)

neilep (OP)

paul.fr

neilep (OP)

neilep (OP)

neilep (OP)

paul.fr

neilep (OP)

neilep (OP)