[opportunity (OP)]

The environment. It could be this planet, or the search for other planets. It could be anything.

Sure, we're destroying rainforests, ice caps are melting more than ever, and so on....yet does "that" makes us think we should go elsewhere "successfully" with our problems of destroying what we have already? Where's our confidence? Are we looking to colonise elsewhere in learning from the failures here? Or are we, as Star Trek sci-fi, a good example though, suggests....the Borg....to nature?

[alancalverd]

All animals destroy their immediate environment. It's almost a definition of animal. Most have the sense to move to another part of the forest and restrict their numbers until the forest recovers, but human parasites insist on "growth" and "expansion" and the electorate approves.

[opportunity (OP)]

What species, what form of life, actually sees something it wants to preserve? Animals try to defend their territory, their land, what they've sprayed, right? It's a pity animals can't flame throw their urine, right? Destroy everything with fire....

[alancalverd]

Termites, honeybees, social wasps, ants - all build and defend structures for their future needs. "Higher" animals eat, sh1t, and move on, knowing that the grass will grow again next year. Humans pour concrete over farmland.

[opportunity (OP)]

Yeah, and for what foundation, what rocket to take off? And why? Concrete is great, so is atomic energy......are we being pitchforked from nature.....or are heeding a call to a purpose above and beyond not destroying what we have? Heeding a call sounds fanciful, I agree....yet, who can define our purpose?

What's coming first, our failure to live well on this planet with all it provides naturally, or the need to leave it because we over estimated our optimism? Or....maybe, we're worried about an asteroid strike? An act of God....?

So many combinations.

What's a good policy others might trust, not just us?

That's the nature of the question of this post asked. It pulls no punches, it's waiting to get hit.

[jeffreyH]

It is all about being better off, comfortable and totally in control of a short lifespan. Never mind that you can never be in total control. It is the many working for the few. No one in their right minds would want to give that up. Space exploration might alleviate the pressure on terrestrial resources by mining then elsewhere. You have to work with what you've got. Otherwise anarchy ensues.

[opportunity (OP)]

I watch being comfortable...that thing.....is that science?

Lets say someone has proof of something, and they're holding back to make sure they know who's comfortable with what they've got and who's not?

Are they being selfish, for instance?

[Concept]

All animals destroy their immediate environment. It's almost a definition of animal. Most have the sense to move to another part of the forest and restrict their numbers until the forest recovers, but human parasites insist on "growth" and "expansion" and the electorate approves.

This is not true in ecology and IMO not a very good perspective to maintain. Life exists and grows because of relationships and interactions. In order to support this argument you would have to define "destroy" and once you dig deeper you will find it's not so straight forward.

[Concept]

If people like Elon Musk truly cared about the planet they would be focused more on improving life on this planet rather than on a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.

Another note: Marine scientists often claim that our budget to study oceans on our own planet is very out of proportional to the budget we spend on space exploration. They make a good case because for the survival of human kind we need to have a balance of where our research budget goes for cost benefit analysis on what will help us survive, thrive, and prosper.

[evan_au]

a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.

The amount of money spent on military uses of space far exceed the amount spent on civilian space exploration.

[hamdani yusuf]

If people like Elon Musk truly cared about the planet they would be focused more on improving life on this planet rather than on a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.
...

It's a matter of priority. Based on Musk interviews on the internet, he puts preserving humanity above the planet. The fate of humanity should not depend on the fate of a pale blue dot in the vastness of space. Especially if we can do something about it.

[Concept]

If people like Elon Musk truly cared about the planet they would be focused more on improving life on this planet rather than on a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.
...

It's a matter of priority. Based on Musk interviews on the internet, he puts preserving humanity above the planet. The fate of humanity should not depend on the fate of a pale blue dot in the vastness of space. Especially if we can do something about it.

So he gambles on an unknown that is far from the ecology that supports human life and space that is full of solar radiation? Sounds like the typical human quest for a cureall, treating symptoms, or dreaming of moving rather than facing the problems and hole you dug yourself into. If you dig into his history of suing other companies trying to create environmentally friendly technology and look at the business aspects of it all, he doesn't stand out as any hero to me. Just another businessman.
We can't run from our problems. We have to face and fix our communities and be proud of our neighborhoods, cities, towns, and Earth. By no means does this mean I am against space exploration or putting human colonies on Mars. I just think that more effort and value need to be put into improving our lives here and people can get blinded by people like Musk and greenwashing.

[Bored chemist]

If people like Elon Musk truly cared about the planet they would be focused more on improving life on this planet rather than on a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.

With or without the likes of Mr Musk, the Earth is doomed.
In about 5 billion years it will get fried when the Sun goes red giant.


I'm also disappointed that nobody has pointed out that, without satellites, we wouldn't even know what a mess we have made of the planet.

[evan_au]

Do we hold space exploration more importantly than Earth's natural status?

It is a natural thing for plants, animals, fungi and bacteria to spread as far as possible, by many innovative methods.

Humans are no exception - Columbus set out for Asia, only to discover the Americas - already populated by people who had earlier felt the urge to spread out.

Having populated every continent on the planet (and many of the larger islands), humans are now looking for a new place to spread to...  It's just that the next step requires a bit more innovation than walking or sailing.

[hamdani yusuf]

If people like Elon Musk truly cared about the planet they would be focused more on improving life on this planet rather than on a selfish quest spending billions to leave us behind as we destroy the ability for human life to exist on it.
...

It's a matter of priority. Based on Musk interviews on the internet, he puts preserving humanity above the planet. The fate of humanity should not depend on the fate of a pale blue dot in the vastness of space. Especially if we can do something about it.

So he gambles on an unknown that is far from the ecology that supports human life and space that is full of solar radiation? Sounds like the typical human quest for a cureall, treating symptoms, or dreaming of moving rather than facing the problems and hole you dug yourself into. If you dig into his history of suing other companies trying to create environmentally friendly technology and look at the business aspects of it all, he doesn't stand out as any hero to me. Just another businessman.
We can't run from our problems. We have to face and fix our communities and be proud of our neighborhoods, cities, towns, and Earth. By no means does this mean I am against space exploration or putting human colonies on Mars. I just think that more effort and value need to be put into improving our lives here and people can get blinded by people like Musk and greenwashing.

Different person has different expertise and passion. He thinks that what he is currently doing will have biggest impact to improve human lives. I don't want to put words in his mouth, so maybe you can hear from the person himself.

[Concept]

Different person has different expertise and passion. He thinks that what he is currently doing will have biggest impact to improve human lives. I don't want to put words in his mouth, so maybe you can hear from the person himself.

He may believe that. All I know is that people are fooled by him. Another example, his one gigafactory is taking advantage of Nevada creating a dangerous situation worse. The area is already stressed for water among other things and he is paying extremely low taxes if any that could benefit the area. It's just contributing to another population boom with lots of consequences. People letting that happen to their area are not valuing the "Earth's natural status" as important (OP). I still hope the long term result of these electric cars of his are positive but I'm not seeing it. They will happen without him. Graphite battery technology looks ready to take off.

[evan_au]

Graphite battery technology

Are you referring to graphene supercapacitors?

At present they have lower energy density than lithium-ion batteries, but could prove to be a useful complement to lithium-ion batteries for stop/start traffic, due to their very fast discharge/charge cycle.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene#Potential_applications

[opportunity (OP)]

The social "go" of chimpanzees is to knit pick, preen, one another, along with finding food, and of course defending their territory.


You know, clearly I'm not suggesting we go back to being chimps.

I'm thinking something like ....mmmm......using technology to take that whole thing I just described safely somewhere else......you know, "because we are just so much smarter than knit-picking", right?

My point is, "no one sees eye to eye"......the temptation is to find fault with each other's suggestion of climbing the scientific and tech ladder, yet for that to work we all have to agree on what works. Space exploration and earth's natural status should go hand in hand. We shouldn't be running from a problem we created, yet we can't and shouldn't stop ourselves creating a back-up elsewhere, ground-up. Mars is very inert. Venus is very volatile.

Stephen Hawking passed yesterday and suggested in his final months that we have only 800 or so years left here on Earth. That depends on current trends. A colleague of mine suggested Mars was the better option, I disagreed. He said, "what's the rush". I said, "taking the chance on Mars and then trying to back-track is centuries worth of effort".

Whoever makes the right direction first......will be always ahead.