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  4. Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres

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Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres

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Offline The Spoon

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #300 on: 08/09/2018 10:53:18 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 08/09/2018 07:46:03
he speed of the current depends on the wind speed
Wrong, we have charts that predicts both the direction and speed of currents in specific locations at specific states of tides. If currents were wind dependent, this would not be possible.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #301 on: 08/09/2018 21:02:13 »
The waters of the Bay of Mont Saint-Michel rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Bay of Mont Saint-Michel.
A similar pattern of tides and tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont-Saint-Michel_Bay
https:/.../ecobio.univ-rennes1.fr/eurossam/final%20report/task13a.htm#4.1.5
https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_current
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:53:12 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #302 on: 08/09/2018 21:47:27 »
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #303 on: 09/09/2018 07:08:01 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/09/2018 21:47:27
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
"Tidal hump" is under the moon in accordance with the static theory of Newton's tides, when a tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 1,650 km/h.
http://artofwayfinding.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-static-theory-of-tides.html?m=1
And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.
Read again, the dynamic theory of tides
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #304 on: 09/09/2018 09:13:27 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 07:08:01
Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/09/2018 21:47:27
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
"Tidal hump" is under the moon in accordance with the static theory of Newton's tides, when a tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 1,650 km/h.
http://artofwayfinding.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-static-theory-of-tides.html?m=1
And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.
Read again, the dynamic theory of tides
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm

OK.
And in reality the tides arrive twice a day, at intervals of 12 hours and 25 minutes.

So, which "theory" is right?
The one that says that the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 m or the one that says they don't?
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #305 on: 09/09/2018 09:35:13 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 09:13:27
So, which "theory" is right?
The waters of Bristol Bay rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of Bristol Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristolsky_Zaliv
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #306 on: 09/09/2018 09:47:08 »
Here are the tide times for Bristol
https://www.tidetimes.org.uk/port-of-bristol-avonmouth-tide-times
High tides turn up every 12 hrs 25 min
That's because they are driven by the Moon.

If they were driven by something else, why would they stay in phase with the moon?
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Offline rmolnav

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #307 on: 09/09/2018 10:35:29 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 09:35:13
The waters of Bristol Bay rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of Bristol Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
Sorry, but you are being told to be wrong, and I do agree ... You only consider whirling effects of daily earth spinning (that locally can be important), but main causes of global ocean tides are moon and sun gravitational pull, and inertial effects due to the actual curved trajectory of our planet (inherent centrifugal forces when not rectilinear path).
Almost four months ago (#74 and 78) I said:
"It SURPRISES me (much more now) this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would happen even without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA:
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/publications/Tidal_Analysis_and_Predictions.pdf
Most of the work deals about the huge variety of local costal tides, but it also has an interesting part analyzing root Moon and Sun related causes of tides.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #308 on: 09/09/2018 11:10:42 »
Quote from: rmolnav on 09/09/2018 10:35:29
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry.
------------------------------------------
The waters of the Hudson Bay rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Hudson Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
https://goo.gl/images/ApK1hr
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Offline opportunity

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #309 on: 09/09/2018 12:41:01 »
The clear feature of the video is the "pulsing" nature of red (high tide) on both sides of the planet. Yes there are definite rotations playing out with the tides, contouring to the geography of the tides.

The nature of the planet with its body of water and the spin associated considers the general spin of the planet with a greater water mass around the equatorial axis of spin. As the planet has a far greater "mass" than the water alone, the water would be effected similarly closest to the moon in the spin and furthest from the moon in the spin. That's fine, yet some scratch their heads re. the idea of a high tide away from the Moon, on the other side of the planet. Yet, as per the reasoning here, its understandable, yet the "greatest whirlpool needs to be recognised, and that would be the idea of a planet "mass" carrying the water as it spins. Is that a fair observation?

From one great event of space and time, many events are sent, and thus from one great whirlpool, many whirlpools arise.

Its "ballet". Any ballerina or trapeze artists knows that to balance a spin there needs to be a "flywheel", a counterweight. The Earth spins 28 or so times faster than the Moon rotates around it, yet the mass of the moon is relevant as a gravitational effect. That's a part of the gravitational flywheel of earth.

Consider Saturn:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=esraPtFX&id=404BD0161C6AAC14ECDC790A915CB9CF5C20C331&thid=OIP.esraPtFXan9juw8lNiWp2gHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.universetoday.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2016%2f09%2fPIA21046-16.jpg&exph=900&expw=1600&q=saturn&simid=608018014166190596&selectedIndex=4&ajaxhist=0

A uniform satellite, and almost uniform appearance of lines on the surface.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 13:05:03 by opportunity »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #310 on: 09/09/2018 13:26:22 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 11:10:42
The one who is not right is angry.
Sorry to hear that.
Come back when you have calmed down.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #311 on: 09/09/2018 13:52:23 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:31:16
"Lunar tidal current" moving from the Indian Ocean from east to west, crashing into the eastern shore of the island of Madagascar, contrary to expectations creates zero tides. And the abnormally high tidal wave for some reason arises between the island of Madagascar and the eastern coast of Africa. Wikipedia explains this discrepancy by the reflection of waves and by the fact that the Coriolis force is doing its job.
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool, revolving around the island of Madagascar at a speed of 9 km / h, and precessing the reflecting tidal wave towards the eastern coast of Africa.
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение_мыса_Игольного
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мозамбикское_течение
http:/.../ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/ellie_boyce/tidal%20types%20fig.gif
The amplitude of the tides depends on the size of the current, the speed of the current, the direction of the current, the amount of water under the current.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #312 on: 09/09/2018 14:00:13 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 13:52:23
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:31:16
"Lunar tidal current" moving from the Indian Ocean from east to west, crashing into the eastern shore of the island of Madagascar, contrary to expectations creates zero tides. And the abnormally high tidal wave for some reason arises between the island of Madagascar and the eastern coast of Africa. Wikipedia explains this discrepancy by the reflection of waves and by the fact that the Coriolis force is doing its job.
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool, revolving around the island of Madagascar at a speed of 9 km / h, and precessing the reflecting tidal wave towards the eastern coast of Africa.
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение_мыса_Игольного
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мозамбикское_течение
http:/.../ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/ellie_boyce/tidal%20types%20fig.gif
The amplitude of the tides depends on the size of the current, the speed of the current, the direction of the current, the amount of water under the current.
Quoting yourself doesn't make you right.
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #313 on: 09/09/2018 14:03:02 »
That's a perfect example of the E>W current, how the world spins, the tow the mantle creates on the water.


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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #314 on: 09/09/2018 16:02:52 »
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 16:52:12 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #315 on: 09/09/2018 16:14:26 »
That's pretty.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #316 on: 09/09/2018 16:53:16 »
One of the problems with trying to discuss things with you is that you misinterpret very basic concepts and try to shoehorn them into your ideas.

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 07:08:01
And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.

Even if the tide lags behind the moon it is still tied to the moon’s frequency because that lag is constant - it varies between 90° and 0°.
I suggest you read the link again and try to understand it.

Note also from the link - “Instead of circumnavigating the world, the tide wave is broken up into numerous smaller cells, called amphidromic systems. Within each cell, the tide wave circles around an amphidromic point.”



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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #317 on: 09/09/2018 17:50:35 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
That's pretty.
It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
« Last Edit: 10/09/2018 15:07:33 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #318 on: 09/09/2018 18:10:25 »

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 17:50:35
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
That's pretty.

It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

It's pretty whether it's a model or not.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
« Reply #319 on: 09/09/2018 18:36:56 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 18:10:25

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 17:50:35
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
That's pretty.

It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

It's pretty whether it's a model or not.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
When the moon hangs over the Atlantic Ocean, a tidal hump is often found somewhere in the Indian or Pacific Ocean, partly this inconsistency can be eliminated with the help of the applied clock, the tools for bringing the lunar theory of tides to real reality.

And, in accordance with the theory of tidal tides, the applied hour and the alternation of high and low tides occur for the following reason.
In the system of coordinates of the solar system, a whirlpool rotating with the Earth around the Earth's axis and in orbit from the sunset zone to the dawn zone overcomes a larger path per unit time than from the dawn to sunset,
At night, the velocity of the whirlpool in the Earth's orbit is 1600 km / h above the speed of the center of the Earth and up to 1600 km / h in the afternoon.
At night, the whirlpool moves toward the orbital motion of the Earth and in the second half of the day against the orbital motion of the Earth.
The reason for this is the rotation of the Earth and the radius of the Earth.
Above, it is easy to verify based on experience with the globe.
As we see, according to the theory of whirlpools of tides, each maelstrom has its own tidal calendar.
"Moon theory of tides," the reason for the alternation of large and small tides (why the amplitude of the tides at night is greater than in the daytime) does not write anything.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2018 03:10:45 by Yusup Hizirov »
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