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On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed

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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« on: 15/08/2018 22:32:08 »
According to which tide theory, the Chinese calendar of 1100 was compiled, and whether it was more accurate than the modern calendar.
« Last Edit: 17/08/2018 11:01:45 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline yor_on

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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #1 on: 15/08/2018 22:49:52 »
Got a link?
As you specifically ask for 1100

But I would guess it was based on the moon. 
http://www.chinesehsc.org/chinese_calenders.shtml
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #2 on: 16/08/2018 09:00:40 »
Quote from: yor_on on 15/08/2018 22:49:52
But I would guess it was based on the moon. 
You might think so, but the Chinese calendar was lunisolar - based on measurements of the phases of the moon, but also on the position of the sun in the sky. It’s not that unusual, ancient Babylonians, Greeks and Israelites all used a variant of this type of calendar.
There’s known to have been a lunisolar calendar in China since at least the Shang Dynasty, around the 14thC BC, but the Republic of China adopted the Western Gregorian calendar on 1st Jan 1912, as an attempt to break away from the authority of the emperor.
One interesting thing about the lunisolar is that is makes tides easier to predict  ;)
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #3 on: 16/08/2018 13:58:09 »
Quote from: yor_on on 15/08/2018 22:49:52
But I would guess it was based on the moon. 
http://www.chinesehsc.org/chinese_calenders.shtml
It turns out, the Chinese knew the law of universal gravitation.
And that the moon "attracts" the Earth?
« Last Edit: 16/08/2018 14:36:24 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #4 on: 17/08/2018 09:01:13 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 16/08/2018 13:58:09
It turns out, the Chinese knew the law of universal gravitation.
And that the moon "attracts" the Earth?
There is no evidence for this.
Chinese astronomers of that time were great observers and recorders of objects and events eg comets. Unfortunately astronomy was rigidly controlled by the government and information held in great secrecy; who could study was also limited. As a result no physical laws were developed, as the physical world was seen as animalistic - hare in the moon etc.
Tide tables develop naturally from a lunisolar calendar, because tides are caused by moon/sun gravitational influences.

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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #5 on: 17/08/2018 11:16:45 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 09:01:13
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 16/08/2018 13:58:09
It turns out, the Chinese knew the law of universal gravitation.
And that the moon "attracts" the Earth?
Chinese astronomers of that time were great observers 
Chinese astronomers of that time predicting the tides relied on intuition experience and perennial data.
And modern astronomers rely on virtual theories.
And the forecast of that time, I believe was more accurate.
D.G. Darwin wrote in 1911: "There is no need to seek antique literature for the grotesque theories of tides." However, sailors manage to measure their height and use the opportunities of tides, without having an idea of the real causes of their occurrence.
« Last Edit: 17/08/2018 21:08:35 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #6 on: 17/08/2018 11:29:33 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 11:16:45
Chinese astronomers of that time predicting the tides relied on intuition and experience.
And modern astronomers rely on virtual theories.
And the forecast of that time, I believe was more accurate.
What you believe is of little importance. Provide an example of a chinese tide table that can be compared to a modern one.
All users of modern tide tables will confirm that they are extremely accurate.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #7 on: 17/08/2018 12:16:19 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 11:29:33
Provide an example of a chinese tide table that can be compared to a modern one.
Before the discovery of the theory of tides in the whole world there were ports and there were port managers who did not care what was going on in their port.
In any state you can find the old tide tables.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #8 on: 17/08/2018 13:29:45 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 11:29:33
All users of modern tide tables will confirm that they are extremely accurate.
Before Copernicus, Ptolemy was also more accurate.
Relying on Ptolemy, dozens of theories were written.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #9 on: 17/08/2018 18:21:56 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 13:29:45
Before Copernicus, Ptolemy was also more accurate.
He was certainly not more accurate than Copernicus, nor was he more accurate than modern physics. He did, however, acknowledge that the tides are the result of moon/sun influences.

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 12:16:19
Before the discovery of the theory of tides in the whole world there were ports and there were port managers who did not care what was going on in their port.
In any state you can find the old tide tables.
So show us the ones you are basing your statements on.

Can I ask you how often you use tide tables in order to test their accuracy?
I use them very regularly and use a calibrated depth sounder to check depths. I can assure you from observation that modern tide tables are very, very accurate.
« Last Edit: 17/08/2018 18:33:17 by Colin2B »
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #10 on: 17/08/2018 18:57:09 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 11:16:45
D.G. Darwin wrote in 1911: "There is no need to seek antique literature for the grotesque theories of tides."
He was right.
You can use the rather beautiful one that Newton came up with.
More practically, you can use a record of "what happened 364 days ago?"
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #11 on: 18/08/2018 09:04:20 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 18:21:56
I can assure you from observation that modern tide tables are very, very accurate.
Forecasting the tides on Earth is quite easy drawing on the experience of intuition and long-term data. On average, the height of the tides on the earth does not exceed half a meter, the only problem is the bays. In the bays in which large rivers flow, predict the tides relying on experience intuition and long-term data is impossible.
The theory of resonances will not help either.
The swirling theory of tides, answers all questions.
I myself did not have to use the tide table.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #12 on: 18/08/2018 12:48:40 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 09:04:20
The swirling theory of tides, answers all questions.
I myself did not have to use the tide table.
OK.
You say your "theory" solves all the problems.
Please show us ho you  would use it to calculate (as an example) the times of the next few high tides in London, New York or Barcelona or some other place where we can check.

If you can't do that then your idea doesn't even solve the simplest problem.
« Last Edit: 19/08/2018 13:24:39 by Bored chemist »
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #13 on: 18/08/2018 13:55:47 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2018 12:48:40
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 09:04:20
The swirling theory of tides, answers all questions.
I myself did not have to use the tide table.
OK.
You say your "theory" solves all the problems.
Please show us ho you  would use it to calculate (as an example) the times of the next few high tides in London, New York or Barcelona or some other place where we can check.

If you can't do that then your idea doesn't even solve the simplest problem.
Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools

There is a rigorous regularity; tides are formed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only on those shores where the high angular velocity of the currents. And the higher the velocity of currents, the higher the amplitude of the tidal wave. On the rectilinear banks, where the currents do not have angular velocity, tides and ebbs do not form.

The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate by the hour hand, forming giant whirlpools. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

As is known, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, possess the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, turn over twice a day, due to which the whirlpools precess (swing by 1-2 degrees) and reflect the tidal wave around the entire perimeter of the whirlpool.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9804/7837959.21/0_f6015_1eb816e5_orig https://goo.gl/images/M4SJq8

The waters of the White Sea rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the White Sea.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceanas.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png

The waters of the Mediterranean Sea rotate counter-clockwise, forming tides 10-15 cm high. But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the tides can reach three meters, and sometimes even more, and this is considered one of the mysteries of nature. But at the same time, in the Gulf of Gabes the whirlpool turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.
A tidal wave in the Amazon River creates a huge planetary maelstrom a few thousand kilometers in diameter, rotating between South America and North Africa, embracing the mouth of the Amazon River.
The scheme of motion of a tidal wave, along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary maelstrom.

The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).

The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools. The height of the tidal wave can be determined by the location of the whirlpools. Drawing on a map of the depths and currents of the seas and oceans.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #14 on: 18/08/2018 14:51:24 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2018 12:48:40
OK.
You say your "theory" solves all the problems.
Please show us ho you  would use it to calculate (as an example) the times of the next few high tides in London, New York or Barcelona or some other place where we can check.

If you can't do that then your idea doesn't even solve the simplest problem.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #15 on: 19/08/2018 13:14:43 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 11:29:33
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 11:16:45
Chinese astronomers of that time predicting the tides relied on intuition experience and perennial data.
And modern astronomers rely on virtual theories.
And the forecast of that time, I believe was more accurate.
What you believe is of little importance. Provide an example of a chinese tide table that can be compared to a modern one.
All users of modern tide tables will confirm that they are extremely accurate.
No tidal specialist will be able to compile a tidal calendar without relying on years of data.
« Last Edit: 19/08/2018 13:17:53 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #16 on: 19/08/2018 13:27:43 »
You say
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 19/08/2018 13:14:43
No tidal specialist will be able to compile a tidal calendar without relying on years of data.

and you say


Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 09:04:20
I myself did not have to use the tide table.
So, we can conclude that you are not a specialist.

Now, would you like to show us that you can do what you said you could do?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2018 12:48:40
You say your "theory" solves all the problems.
Please show us ho you  would use it to calculate (as an example) the times of the next few high tides in London, New York or Barcelona or some other place where we can check.

If you can't do that then your idea doesn't even solve the simplest problem.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #17 on: 19/08/2018 13:39:54 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 19/08/2018 13:14:43
Quote from: Colin2B on 17/08/2018 11:29:33
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 17/08/2018 11:16:45
Chinese astronomers of that time predicting the tides relied on intuition experience and perennial data.
And modern astronomers rely on virtual theories.
And the forecast of that time, I believe was more accurate.
What you believe is of little importance. Provide an example of a chinese tide table that can be compared to a modern one.
All users of modern tide tables will confirm that they are extremely accurate.
No tidal specialist will be able to compile a tidal calendar without relying on years of data.
I mean a specialist in lunar tides, you need to rely on many years of data.
A specialist, in the theory of whirlpools, you need to know the speed of the current.
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #18 on: 20/08/2018 19:14:51 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 19/08/2018 13:39:54
A specialist, in the theory of whirlpools, you need to know the speed of the current.
You have cited data for the whirlpools.
Do the calculation and tell me when it's next  going to be high tide in London, (or admit that your method won't work)
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Re: On what theory was the Chinese calendar of the tides of 1100 formed
« Reply #19 on: 20/08/2018 21:51:40 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/08/2018 19:14:51
Do the calculation and tell me when it's next  going to be high tide in London, (or admit that your method won't work)
What is more important to you, the calculations of the tide on the coast of London or the recognition that the theory of whirlpools is erroneous. In my second you are more important.
Choose one of the two.
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