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  4. Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
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Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #60 on: 29/09/2018 19:41:39 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 18:36:37
This is not a straightforward absorption of RF radiation

No, it's not. It is a straightforward reflection.
Which is why it won't be absorbed, so it won't cause heating.
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 18:36:37
Boron are often used in radar absorbing materials . 
You still haven't understood the difference between boron and borates.

Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 18:36:37
The powerful , alternating , RF field will cause said particles to experience electron migration ,

That's only going to work if the size of the conductors s such as to provide resonance.
You talked about using 0.5GHz
Resonance at that frequency needs a conductor about 2 feet long.


Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 18:36:37
This process is extremely site specific .

Yeah, right, You can target any half metre section of the patient you want to burn.

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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #61 on: 29/09/2018 21:26:05 »
            Boron Nano-particles
 PARTICLES , not boro-silicates , not boron oxides , just Boron .  It is one of a multitude of non-ferrous materials which will generate strong eddy-currents in the presence of a powerful, alternating electro-magnetic field ( RADAR ) .
 It is used in compound as a tumor indicator .  This could be an integral part of the Hot-Needle therapy . 
 The EM resonance you mention is not necessary here .  This is not tuning a radio , simply applying an EM force to push some electrons back &  forth .  Brute force , not efficiency , is required here . 
Finally , the target will be the entire patient , but the burn will be where the highly conductive materials  (likely metals) are concentrated .
Example:Place a small ball of aluminum on top of a Pot-pie .  Place in microwave oven&turn on.  Tell Ol' Perfessor what burned !
Wah haha haha !  I feel like  Doctor Fu__enstein today ! Always did like P. Funk.  !............P.M.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #62 on: 29/09/2018 21:33:56 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 21:26:05
PARTICLES , not boro-silicates , not boron oxides , just Boron .  It is one of a multitude of non-ferrous materials which will generate strong eddy-currents in the presence of a powerful, alternating electro-magnetic field

A couple of points.
(1) Boron is a poor conductor- so you won't get large currents through it easily.
(2) using small particles of materials reduced eddy currents- the fact is used commercially.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core#Powdered_metals

Also, you still haven't explained how you plan to get these materials into the cancer (but not the surrounding tissue)
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #63 on: 29/09/2018 23:01:00 »
     Passive Tumor Accumulation
 N.C.I. has made great progress with this family of techniques , and are steadily advancing with active versions as well .  These therapies place " nano-scale devices " INTO the tumor cells .  Some larger tumors are still difficult to get NSDs into .  These are prime cand-itates for Hot-Needle Therapy .
Experimentation will determine which materials are best for which situation .  The body itself will put the NSDs in the tumors , but not the surrounding , healthy tissue . 
Okay ! Boron:Locator, Silver:Heat, EAW Radar:Process Driver .
Ya got it now , right Fred ?
Yippy !........P.M.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #64 on: 30/09/2018 09:24:55 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 23:01:00
Passive Tumor Accumulation
So, what you are saying is that we should continue to do something which is already being done.

True, but hardly worth posting.

Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 29/09/2018 21:26:05
Example:Place a small ball of aluminum on top of a Pot-pie .  Place in microwave oven&turn on.  Tell Ol' Perfessor what burned !
Try doing that underwater.
(Or, roughly equivalently, try wrapping the foil + pipe in stake, then microwaving it.)

The steak burns first.
Did you somehow think that was a good thing?

Also, you keep missing this bit
What have you said that is new?
You have gone on about boron- without understanding that it's not actually used as such.
You have gone on about metals- without realising that they reflect radio waves, rather than absorbing them.
And you have gone on about silver- without offering any clue as to how you might use it (not that it would matter since you are wrong about interaction with EM radiation).

So, what you have said is "if we can magically attach something to cancer cells that is bad for them by some mechanism (like absorbing RF strongly), then we can treat cancer".
True, but hardly progress.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #65 on: 30/09/2018 12:00:15 »
         The Imprecise Analogy
The foil-ball analogy must be done in air , because microwaves are absorbed by water far more quickly  than .4 to .5 gigahertz UHF waves.  They never make it through the steak to the foil . 
The Boron is to FIND the tumors , that is how it is presently used .  The point of accumulating metals in the cancer cells is to use EMR to induce eddy currents .  THESE are what heat the NSDs & surrounding tissues . 
Okay , I think the preposition is now outstandingly clear ........P.M.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #66 on: 30/09/2018 13:35:47 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 30/09/2018 12:00:15
Okay , I think the preposition is now outstandingly clear ........P.M.
LOL
preposition
ˌprɛpəˈzɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun GRAMMAR
a word governing, and usually preceding, a noun or pronoun and expressing a relation to another word or element in the clause, as in ‘the man on the platform’, ‘she arrived after dinner’, ‘what did you do it for ?’.

proposition
prɒpəˈzɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a statement or assertion that expresses a judgement or opinion.
"the proposition that high taxation is undesirable"
synonyms:   theory, hypothesis, thesis, argument, premise, postulation, theorem, concept, idea, statement
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 30/09/2018 12:00:15
microwaves are absorbed by water far more quickly  than .4 to .5 gigahertz UHF waves.  They never make it through the steak to the foil . 
lot of the UHF doesn't make it through either...
http://file.scirp.org/Html/2-9801182/a2f0db40-3590-4a87-b3a9-fd8a46ce9b6b.jpg

So. What would really happen- rather than what you want to magically happen- is that a lot of the UHF would be absorbed on the way to the tumour, it would bounce off the metal you (magically) put there and then some more of it would be absorbed on the way back.
About half the time the tumour will be hidden behind the magic metal so only the healthy tissue would be cooked.



Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 30/09/2018 12:00:15
The Boron is to FIND the tumors , that is how it is presently used
Not really- the rest of the boron-doped molecule finds the tumour.
The boron is the "payload"- when it's exposed to slow neutrons it releases a lot of energy and fries the cancer.

Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 30/09/2018 12:00:15
The point of accumulating metals in the cancer cells
You have yet to explain how you propose to do this.

Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 30/09/2018 12:00:15
use EMR to induce eddy currents
Which, for small particles, will not happen.

And, once again
What have you said that is new?
You have gone on about boron- without understanding that it's not actually used as such.
You have gone on about metals- without realising that they reflect radio waves, rather than absorbing them.
And you have gone on about silver- without offering any clue as to how you might use it (not that it would matter since you are wrong about interaction with EM radiation).

So, what you have said is "if we can magically attach something to cancer cells that is bad for them by some mechanism (like absorbing RF strongly), then we can treat cancer".
True, but hardly progress.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #67 on: 01/10/2018 00:23:32 »
              My Advertisement
  The preposition was relating this treatment to cancer therapy .
 Now , at 400 to 500 megahertz , ~ 50% of the UHF signal makes it all of the way through a very obese patient .  Source : Int'l Journal of the Society for Underwater Tech. Volume 27 , 2007 .
 Next , the UHF waves will not bounce off of nano-particles .  They are 1000 times too small .  Look up " skin-depths " for conductive metals . 
Next , Boron imaging is completely seperate from BNCT .  Ergo , this treatment uses boron independently from any neutrons .  Ref : Journal of Clinical Cancer Research ; MRI-Boron Imaging . 
 I already clarified the role of the conducting NSDs ( gold , silver , copper , etc.) in converting RF energy into electric eddy-currents .  The constant back&forth flow of these causing resistive heat to be created & dispersed around the conducting NSDs .
Okay , cancer-cooking machine !
.......P.M.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #68 on: 05/10/2018 00:06:18 »
I believe the reason they do not do the burning with the laser is the reason they do not put patients under the knife, damage to vital organs asd systems, and death of the patient during surgery. Key hole surgery is less invasive. The idea of radiotherapy is to allow the body to recover from the cancer gradually, although radiotherapy is limited in the ammound adminiterable, due to radiation. Chemotherapy and surgery carry significant health penalies of there own.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #69 on: 05/10/2018 00:44:42 »
...........Competing Therapies
You are so right , Mr. Chemicals !  Those effects are why I spent a quarter-century honing the "Thermo-therapy" approach .  With it , the patient can visit the Out-patient clinic occasionally , for their harmless radar-bath !  Sure beats poison , don't it !.....P.M.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #70 on: 05/10/2018 13:01:19 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 01/10/2018 00:23:32
 I already clarified the role of the conducting NSDs ( gold , silver , copper , etc.) in converting RF energy into electric eddy-currents .  The constant back&forth flow of these causing resistive heat to be created & dispersed around the conducting NSDs .

How many times do I have to explain to you that small particles do not produce eddy current heating?

It's a well known fact, exploited in so called "iron dust" cores in HF transformers etc.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #71 on: 05/10/2018 13:14:09 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 01/10/2018 00:23:32
Next , the UHF waves will not bounce off of nano-particles .  They are 1000 times too small .  Look up " skin-depths " for conductive metals . 
OK, let's have a look at some skin depths. Here's a handy calculator
https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-skin-depth.aspx
for copper at 500 MHz the skin depth is 2.9µm


For Aluminium at 200 KHz the skin depth is 180µm
Ordinary cooking foil is about 16µm thick- less than a tenth of the skin depth.
So, by  your "logic" it can't reflect long wave radio signals at 200KHz

Get a radio, tune in to radio 4 on long wave, and wrap the radio in foil.

You will discover that thin (i.e. much less than the wavelength or the skin depth) foils still reflect  radio waves.


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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #72 on: 05/10/2018 13:15:06 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 05/10/2018 00:44:42
Sure beats poison , don't it !.....P.M.
No, because it won't actually work.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #73 on: 05/10/2018 13:47:49 »
 Alright , Mr. Chemist .  I'll mount an even more thorough research regime .  This could take quite a while , as there is a paucity of data on the behaviors of nano-particles in RF fields .  My personal bet is that there is a way to heat them up, but proving it will be a bear . Easier  if I had a lab ......P. 
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #74 on: 05/10/2018 14:40:19 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 05/10/2018 13:47:49
Alright , Mr. Chemist .  I'll mount an even more thorough research regime .  This could take quite a while , as there is a paucity of data on the behaviors of nano-particles in RF fields .  My personal bet is that there is a way to heat them up, but proving it will be a bear . Easier  if I had a lab ......P. 
You could hardly mount a less thorough research regime than simply ignoring reality.

Just a suggestion: rather than engaging in your own research, why not start from the basis of someone else's research?
Perhaps you could start by considering the fact that I have done lots of reading on this sort of thing.
Incidentally, you might be interested to know that the black pigment in black + white photographs is , in fact, nanoparticulate silver.

Pictures are not noted for blocking radio transmissions.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #75 on: 05/10/2018 18:11:29 »
Absorption is what I'm after .
The aluminum reflection/skin depth issue is affected by the Al. being contiguous . 
The effect I'm after could also be responsivery to "Virtual" effects , that is ; groups of seperate particles acting somewhat like a chunk , or a surface .  There are a tremendous # of variables to play with here .  It's doubtful that any-one's done it all .  It really calls for a dedicated research project .  Even BNCT wasn't born in a day .
.........P.M.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #76 on: 05/10/2018 18:14:28 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 05/10/2018 18:11:29
Absorption is what I'm after .
And it is the exact opposite of what you get .
Do you understand that reflection and absorption are mutually exclusive?

So, why have you picked "shiny things" to do your absorption for you?
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #77 on: 05/10/2018 18:54:08 »
It's a percentage thing .  Beside those are very different on the nano-scale , and with rough surfaces . 
Even if it's all reflecting , a collection of particles will increase the local Faraday Cage effect .
See what I mean about variables ?
P.M.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #78 on: 05/10/2018 23:54:16 »
I think really mega mind you can group hot probe in with surgery, it will have similar effects.

What you need to ask is why are even opperable cancers (eg lung ) not surgically removed. I have asked myself that question. I have found the over riding answer is it disturbes the cancer through the lymph node system. People have there lymph node system removed, but this is an extremley invasive and hard operation that has serious concequences for the long term future.

Some cancers do not respond to dna disruption in radio therapy.

Some do not respond to chemotherapy.
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Re: Can cancers be treated by burning them with a hot probe?
« Reply #79 on: 06/10/2018 01:07:03 »
.......I agree without agreeing .
 At first glance  ( & even 2nd ) , the effects might seem similar , BUT...   radiotherapy uses radiation and secondary radiation to kill SOME of the tumor cells. It causes collateral damage , and leaves cancer cells in the target area ALIVE !  Chemotherapy uses poisons that preferentially kill cancer cells . This is worse in most regards !
Surgery is so invasive & damaging that it shoots live cancer cells into the circulatory & lymphatic systems !
All three of the above sicken/kill the patient , while cancer cells party in the targeted areas !
My proposal prevents ANY of the above !  It kills 100% of the cells in the targeted areas ; either by NSD & radar soak , or by Thermal Hot Needle .  This is because cooked meat is dead , ALL of it ! The only dilemma is whether to pull the meatball out or not !
Collateral damage ?  Initially a bit .
Repeat damage ?  Almost none .
Quality of life for patient ?  Great .
Life expectancy ?  Indefinite .
Cost ?  Ridiculously cheap .
Alright , win , win , win , for all the boys & girls , and grandfolks too !
Live long and prosper ..........P.M.
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