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By this definition, something judged as immoral by one standard can be moral when judged by another standard. Universal consensus about immorality can only be achieved by first establishing a universal moral standard.Judging immorality using above definition also requires that the agent know or believe that what they do/think is violating their believed moral standard. Hence, if we are consistent with that definition, ISIS fighters throwing gays from tall buildings can't be judged immoral, because they believe that what they do is according to their believed moral standard. Those who insist that their action is immoral effectively reject the above definition of immorality.
If you accept that immorality comes in non-binary magnitude, the answer is easier. Meat eaters are more immoral than vegans. Trophy hunters are more immoral. Serial killers are even more immoral.
Some circumcising clinics advertized that the patients won't feel any pain. Some said that using laser surgery helps reducingor even eliminating pain.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2020 09:52:38Some circumcising clinics advertized that the patients won't feel any pain. Some said that using laser surgery helps reducingor even eliminating pain.It's still an assault, so only justifiable with informed consent (like boxing) or for clear medical reasons. Superstition cannot excuse anything you do to another person if it fails Test 1.
That's a big and unnecessary "if".
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2020 08:56:26Quote from: alancalverd on 29/12/2020 11:38:38Wife-beating fails Test 1, whatever your religious convictions, and in civilised countries is prohibited under the (confrontational) general law of assault. What about death penalties? Do they pass your tests? Is the result of your morality tests affected by the method, such as hanging, firing squad, guillotine, electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection?Apply the tests. Would you like to be hanged, shot, decapitated, electrocuted, asphyxiated or poisoned? Would you do the same to your nearest and dearest?
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/12/2020 11:38:38Wife-beating fails Test 1, whatever your religious convictions, and in civilised countries is prohibited under the (confrontational) general law of assault. What about death penalties? Do they pass your tests? Is the result of your morality tests affected by the method, such as hanging, firing squad, guillotine, electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection?
Wife-beating fails Test 1, whatever your religious convictions, and in civilised countries is prohibited under the (confrontational) general law of assault.
Which makes it immoral? The superstition or the failure to pass your tests? The case is voluntary circumcision for religious reason.
Do you think that all immoral actions have the same degree of immortality?
I don't want to get financial penalty either. Nor jail time. Does it make those penalties immoral?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2020 21:48:45Do you think that all immoral actions have the same degree of immortality?The question is irrelevant. Morality is binary, but the extent to which one should prosecute and punish immorality depends on how much harm has been done by an immoral act. That's why we generally separate the legislature (that decides which actions are wrong) from the judiciary (that weighs up an appropriate punishment).
If you have transgressed the boundaries of moral behavior, society has deemed that justice should be retributive.
What do you think about following cases, are they related to morality? Which decision is moral/immoral?A wants no kid.B wants 1 kid only.C wants 2 kids.D wants 10 kids.E wants 100 kids.F wants 1000 kids.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/12/2020 09:23:58How do you measure the economy?"The economy" is all the money that changes hands, plus an estimate of the monetary value of bartered goods. A significant proportion of The Economy is money spent on illegal drugs (estimated) and prostitution (increasingly accurate as the profession becomes unionised and employs accountants - nobody wants to be imprisoned for tax evasion). It has nothing to do with morality, productivity (20% of UK GNP is taken up in mortgage payments for secondhand houses) or standard of living.
How do you measure the economy?
We could use similar method to quantify morality.
Punishment isn't punishment if it prima facie passes Test 1. However: In a civilised society, the general population (or more usually its parliamentary representatives) sets acceptable limits on punishment and empowers judges to do just that - judge the proportionality of punishment to crime.In a fine example of what used to be a civilised country, the US constitution explicitly prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment". To some extent this reflects Test 2: in the limit, executions must be "humane". Unacceptable behavior is codified in statute law and the prospective criminal is thus presumed (subject to tests of competence) to be aware of the consequences of being found guilty.You don't enter a boxing ring or a rugby field with the expectation of leaving unhurt. You are presumed to have accepted the risk for the prize or at least the fun of bashing another consenting adult. Thus with crime and punishment. The world is not perfect. There are barbaric states governed by religious perverts where morality does not feature in the legal system. Unfortunately for their populations, they also have a lot of oil.
That's unnecessarily complicated. An action that fails my tests is immoral.