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Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/04/2021 23:07:24 You don't mind if humanity goes extinct, but complain about a few people cause death of some others.There's a difference between alive and dead.What happens after my death is of no significance to me. I would prefer it if my descendants had a happy life and died peacefully, but whether they exist at all is of no consequence to even our nearest neighbors on Mars, let alone the rest of the universe. Meanwhile, as part of the way I think and act whilst alive, I object to parasites of any species causing the death of other humans.
You don't mind if humanity goes extinct, but complain about a few people cause death of some others.
You make an important point. Why should you care what happens after you are dead?Once you're dead, the Universe ceases to exist. So what does anything matter?
I have never needed to discuss terminal goals, instrumental goals or assumptions when considering ethics
everyone knows or can evaluate whether an action is desirable for themselves or their loved ones.
Sometimes we learn easiest way using examples and counter examples. In your opinion, who is the most moral person in history of mankind? why?
Who is the most immoral person in history of mankind? why?
We can have better lives than most other species because most of our ancestors wanted better lives for their descendants, and they acted accordingly.
Once you're dead, the Universe ceases to exist. So what does anything matter?
No other species has inflicted war, politics or religion on its descendants.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/04/2021 16:34:06Sometimes we learn easiest way using examples and counter examples. In your opinion, who is the most moral person in history of mankind? why? Me. Because I've never knowingly hurt or insulted anyone. QuoteWho is the most immoral person in history of mankind? why? Feel free to pick any Nazi. I don't know enough history to choose one above the others, though Mengele and Heydrich seemed to take particular pleasure in their work. You may disagree, but I'm speaking from a very limited knowledge of the species.
I repeat, no other species has inflicted pointless suffering on itself and its own descendants. Insects and chimpanzees do indeed compete for territory or other resources, but we have no evidence of religious crusades or ideological warfare among these more rational animals. Can you imagine an ant stoning another ant because he attends a different church?
Not that it matters, since they all fail my tests.
Regret is the emotion of wishing one had made a different decision in the past, because the consequences of the decision were unfavorable.Regret is related to perceived opportunity. Its intensity varies over time after the decision, in regard to action versus inaction, and in regard to self-control at a particular age. The self-recrimination which comes with regret is thought to spur corrective action and adaptation.
Determinants of intensityAction versus inactionThere is an interplay between action versus inaction and time. Regrets of an action are more intense in the short term, whereas regrets of inaction are more intense over the long term.[15]AgeSee also: Locus_of_control § AgeIn a 2001 study, high intensity of regret and intrusive thoughts in older adults was related to self-control, and low internal control was expected to be self-protective and help to decrease regret. In younger adults, internal-control facilitated active change and was associated with low intensity of regret.[16]OpportunityPeople's biggest regrets occur where they perceive the greatest and most important opportunity for corrective action.[1] When no opportunity exists to improve conditions, thought processes mitigate the cognitive dissonance caused by regret, e.g. by rationalization, and reconstrual.[1] Regret pushes people toward revised decision making and corrective action as part of learning that may bring improvement in life circumstances. A 1999 study measured regret in accordance to negative reviews with service providers. Regret was an accurate predictor of who switched providers. As more intense regret is experienced, the likelihood of initiating change is increased. Consequently, the more opportunity of corrective action available, the larger the regret felt and the more likely corrective action is achieved. Feeling regret spurs future action to make sure other opportunities are taken so that regret will not be experienced again. People learn from their mistakes.[17]Lost opportunity principleWith a lost opportunity regret should intensify, not diminish, when people feel that they could have made better choices in the past but now perceive limited opportunities to take corrective action in the future. "People who habitually consider future consequences (and how they may avoid future negative outcomes) experience less, rather than more, intense regret after a negative outcome." [18] This principle offers another reason as to why education is the most regretted aspect in life. Education becomes a more limited opportunity as time passes. Aspects such as making friends, becoming more spiritual, and community involvement tend to be less regrettable which makes sense because these are also aspects in life that do not become limited opportunities. As the opportunity to remedy a situation passes, feelings of hopelessness may increase.[19] An explanation of the lost opportunity principle can be seen as a lack of closure: Low closure makes past occurrences feel unresolved. Low closure is associated with "reductions in self-esteem and persistent negative affect over time" and with the realization and regret of lost opportunity. High closure is associated with acceptance of lost opportunity.[20]The lost opportunity principle suggests, that regret does not serve as a corrective motive (which the opportunity principle suggests). Instead, regret serves as a more general reminder to seize the day. [21]Regret lingers where opportunity existed, with the self-blame of remorse being a core element to ultimately spur corrective action in decision-making.[1]NeuroscienceResearch upon brain injury and fMRI have linked the orbitofrontal cortex to the processing of regret.[22][23]Completeness of feedback about the outcomes after making a decision determined whether persons experienced regret (outcomes from both the choice and the alternative) vs. disappointment (partial-feedback, seeing only the outcome from the choice) in a magnetoencephalography study. Another factor was the type of agency: With personal decision making the neural correlates of regret could be seen, with external agency (computer choice) those of disappointment. Feedback regret showed greater brain activity in the right anterior and posterior regions, with agency regret producing greater activity in the left anterior region.[4] Both regret and disappointment activated anterior insula and dorsomedial prefrontal cortex but only with regret the lateral orbitofrontal cortex was activated.[24]Psychopathic individuals do not show regret and remorse. This was thought to be due to an inability to generate this emotion in response to negative outcomes. However, in 2016, people with antisocial personality disorder and dissocial personality disorder were found to experience regret, but did not use the regret to guide their choice in behavior. There was no lack of regret but a problem to think through a range of potential actions and estimating the outcome values.[25]
adjective1.not correct or true; incorrect.2.unjust, dishonest, or immoral.
Quote from: alancalverd on 07/04/2021 15:20:30Not that it matters, since they all fail my tests.Some actions may comply with one or more moral standard, but violate some others. Some actions done by nihilists, psychopaths and masochists may be considered immoral by most existing moral standards, but still comply with your moral tests.
Charles Joseph Whitman (June 24, 1941 – August 1, 1966) was an American mass murderer who became infamous as the "Texas Tower Sniper". On August 1, 1966, he used knives to kill his mother and his wife in their respective homes, then went to the University of Texas in Austin with multiple firearms and began indiscriminately shooting at people. He fatally shot three people inside the university tower. He then went to the tower's 28th-floor observation deck, where he fired at random people for some 96 minutes, killing an additional 11 people and wounding 31 others, including a woman whose injuries prevented her pregnancy from coming to term, before he was shot dead by Austin police officers. Whitman killed a total of 15 people and a fetus; the 15th victim died 35 years later from injuries sustained in the attack.
The day before the shootings, Whitman bought a pair of binoculars and a knife from a hardware store, and some Spam from a 7-Eleven convenience store. He picked up his wife from her summer job as a telephone operator before he met his mother for lunch at the Wyatt Cafeteria, which was close to the university.[39]At about 4:00 p.m. on July 31, 1966, Charles and Kathy Whitman visited their close friends John and Fran Morgan. They left the Morgans' apartment at 5:50 p.m. so Kathy could get to her 6:00–10:00 p.m. shift.[39]At 6:45 p.m., Whitman began typing his suicide note, a portion of which read:I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. These thoughts constantly recur, and it requires a tremendous mental effort to concentrate on useful and progressive tasks.[40]In his note, he went on to request an autopsy be performed on his remains after he was dead to determine if there had been a discernible biological contributory cause for his actions and for his continuing and increasingly intense headaches. He also wrote that he had decided to kill both his mother and wife. Expressing uncertainty about his reasons, he nonetheless stated he did not believe his mother had "ever enjoyed life as she is entitled to",[39] and that his wife had "been as fine a wife to me as any man could ever hope to have". Whitman further explained that he wanted to relieve both his wife and mother of the suffering of this world, and to save them the embarrassment of his actions. He did not mention planning the attack at the university.[41]Just after midnight on August 1, Whitman drove to his mother's apartment at 1212 Guadalupe Street. After killing his mother, he placed her body on her bed and covered it with sheets.[42] Just how he murdered his mother is disputed, but officials believed he rendered her unconscious before stabbing her in the heart.[42]He left a handwritten note beside her body, which read in part:To Whom It May Concern: I have just taken my mother's life. I am very upset over having done it. However, I feel that if there is a heaven she is definitely there now [...] I am truly sorry [...] Let there be no doubt in your mind that I loved this woman with all my heart.[43]Whitman then returned to his home at 906 Jewell Street, where he killed his wife by stabbing her three times in the heart as she slept. He covered her body with sheets, then resumed the typewritten note he had begun the previous evening.[44] Using a ballpoint pen, he wrote at the side of the page:Friends interrupted. 8-1-66 Mon. 3:00 A.M. BOTH DEAD.[42]Whitman continued the note, finishing it by pen:I imagine it appears that I brutally killed both of my loved ones. I was only trying to do a quick thorough job [...] If my life insurance policy is valid please pay off my debts [...] donate the rest anonymously to a mental health foundation. Maybe research can prevent further tragedies of this type [...] Give our dog to my in-laws. Tell them Kathy loved "Schocie" very much [...] If you can find in yourselves to grant my last wish, cremate me after the autopsy.[40]He also left instructions in the rented house requesting that two rolls of camera film be developed and wrote personal notes to each of his brothers.[42]Whitman last wrote on an envelope labeled "Thoughts for the Day", in which he stored a collection of written admonitions. He added on the outside of the envelope:8-1-66. I never could quite make it. These thoughts are too much for me.[42]At 5:45 a.m. on August 1, 1966, Whitman phoned his wife's supervisor at Bell System to explain that Kathy was ill and unable to work that day. He made a similar phone call to his mother's workplace five hours later.Whitman's final journal entries were written in the past tense, suggesting that he had already killed his wife and mother.[40]
Investigating officers found that Whitman had visited several university physicians in the year before the shootings; they prescribed various medications for him. Whitman had seen a minimum of five doctors between the fall and winter of 1965, before he visited a psychiatrist from whom he received no prescription. At some other time he was prescribed Valium by Dr. Jan Cochrum, who recommended he visit the campus psychiatrist.[51]Whitman met with Maurice Dean Heatly, the staff psychiatrist at the University of Texas Health Center, on March 29, 1966.[52] Whitman referred to his visit with Heatly in his final suicide note, writing, "I talked with a Doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt come [sic] overwhelming violent impulses. After one visit, I never saw the Doctor again, and since then have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail."[40]Heatly's notes on the visit said, "This massive, muscular youth seemed to be oozing with hostility [...] that something seemed to be happening to him and that he didn't seem to be himself."[53] "He readily admits having overwhelming periods of hostility with a very minimum of provocation. Repeated inquiries attempting to analyze his exact experiences were not too successful with the exception of his vivid reference to 'thinking about going up on the tower with a deer rifle and start shooting people.'"[54]
In my own experience, all that "moral standards" cause is a life-long regret for not having broken many of them.
Quote from: charles1948 on 08/04/2021 20:58:00In my own experience, all that "moral standards" cause is a life-long regret for not having broken many of them.That's because you think that those moral standards don't align with your terminal goal, hence violating them would not prevent you from achieving your goals. If a moral standard is aligned with your terminal goal, you will think that it's a good standard, and you'll have no motivation to violate it. If you did broken many of moral standards in your society, other members of your society who think that their terminal goals are aligned with those moral standards will regret for not stopping you from breaking them.
Techno-Religions and Silicon Prophets: Will the 21st century be shaped by hi-tech gurus or by religious zealots – or are they the same thing?What is the current status of religions and ideologies in the world, and what will be the likely impact of 21st-century technological breakthroughs on religion and ideology? Will traditional religions and ideologies—from Christianity and Islam to Liberalism and Socialism—manage to survive the technological and economic revolutions of the 21st century? What would be the place of Islam, for example, in a world of genetic engineering and artificial intelligence? The talk addresses these questions, and argues that the future belongs to techno-religions, which promise salvation through technology, and which are already gathering believers in places such as Silicon Valley.