[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Why bother? The areas of the globe where criminals operate are already overpopulated (parasites need hosts!) so recycling them as reformed humans is not required.

The simplest way to recycle organic rubbish is to segregate it into a compost heap and let nature reduce it to sterile dust. I am always in favor of a "do nothing" approach if it achieves the desired result, and in this case it is certainly the quickest procedure and guaranteed effective.

I've often mentioned that efficiency is a universal instrumental goal.
Your method relies on the assumption that the criminals aren't smart enough to escape from the segregation. And maintaining it is easy and cheap. Also that neuroscience won't make significant progress from current state.

[alancalverd]

Smart is useful, but the ability to swim 50 miles in the North Atlantic is essential. There is no "maintenance" - see above - they can die from exposure or sort out some shelter - I don't care.
Neuroscience has plenty of challenges and opportunities for making life better without wasting resources on our enemies.

[alancalverd]

Prehistoric humans were limited in their capacity to coordinate efforts involving large numbers of individuals,

Stonehenge suggests otherwise. Building effective calendars permitted trade over the entire west coast of Europe, across north Africa and into India. It was destroyed by the literate Romans.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Prehistoric humans were limited in their capacity to coordinate efforts involving large numbers of individuals,

Stonehenge suggests otherwise.

How many people were involved in building it? I guess less than a million.

Building effective calendars permitted trade over the entire west coast of Europe, across north Africa and into India. It was destroyed by the literate Romans.

Those trades require written communications. No one can memorize all of the transactions reliably.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Smart is useful, but the ability to swim 50 miles in the North Atlantic is essential. There is no "maintenance" - see above - they can die from exposure or sort out some shelter - I don't care.

How do you send them there in the first place?
They could hitch a ride to the vehicles sending newer prisoners.,
They could build their own boat.

Neuroscience has plenty of challenges and opportunities for making life better without wasting resources on our enemies.

How about turning enemies into allies?

[alancalverd]

Smart is useful, but the ability to swim 50 miles in the North Atlantic is essential. There is no "maintenance" - see above - they can die from exposure or sort out some shelter - I don't care.

How do you send them there in the first place?

Boat or plane. Just like a regular prison bus, but able to cross water. It worked for Botany Bay.

They could hitch a ride to the vehicles sending newer prisoners.,

fire hoses and guns usually deter hitchhikers - not that you see many on a regular prison bus. 

They could build their own boat.

And as long as the bleeding hearts welcome them, they will return to predate on their victims. Life is a constant battle.

Neuroscience has plenty of challenges and opportunities for making life better without wasting resources on our enemies.

How about turning enemies into allies?

We have no shortage of allies, and indeed an excess of people in most of the habitable regions.

[alancalverd]

Prehistoric humans were limited in their capacity to coordinate efforts involving large numbers of individuals,

Stonehenge suggests otherwise.

How many people were involved in building it? I guess less than a million.

There are very few modern enterprises that coordinate more than a million people. Indeed following the demise of the Soviet army, it is likely that the UK National Health Service is the only organisation with more than a million employees, and they are hardly "coordinated", merely facilitated to do their thing in small groups.

Building effective calendars permitted trade over the entire west coast of Europe, across north Africa and into India. It was destroyed by the literate Romans.

Those trades require written communications. No one can memorize all of the transactions reliably.

No need to do so until VAT was invented. You probably keep very good business accounts but would be regarded as a bit obsessive if you keep all your household supermarket bills and bus tickets. A rural doctor friend never billed his agricultural patients, and never bought food. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

We have no shortage of allies, and indeed an excess of people in most of the habitable regions.

What if the enemies are a whole nation? Or a group of nations?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There are very few modern enterprises that coordinate more than a million people. Indeed following the demise of the Soviet army, it is likely that the UK National Health Service is the only organisation with more than a million employees, and they are hardly "coordinated", merely facilitated to do their thing in small groups.

A nation can coordinate millions or even hundreds of millions of people. The coordination doesn't have to be permanent employments. Managing lives in a pandemic or solving problems of climate change can be shown as examples.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

No need to do so until VAT was invented. You probably keep very good business accounts but would be regarded as a bit obsessive if you keep all your household supermarket bills and bus tickets. 

It would be impossible without written records, which are mostly digital now. At least in the bank side, or supermarket and transportation company.

A rural doctor friend never billed his agricultural patients, and never bought food.

It's an exception instead of the norm. He/she still needs other things than food. As long as they don't live in isolation, they need written records. They couldn't learn much without written records, such as books, web sites, etc.

[alancalverd]

What if the enemies are a whole nation? Or a group of nations?

We were discussing criminals within a nation. Conflicts between politicians can be resolved by negotiation or war.

[alancalverd]

A nation can coordinate millions or even hundreds of millions of people. The coordination doesn't have to be permanent employments. Managing lives in a pandemic or solving problems of climate change can be shown as examples.

Politicians can motivate and facilitate but it's very difficult to coerce everyone.
Pandemics have been managed where borders were closed and people were quarantined, but there are very few examples where life management on any finer scale has been effective.
The problems of climate change have not been addressed in any meaningful or effective manner. People will eventually respond by migration, whatever coordination is attempted.

[alancalverd]

I signed up for an Open University foundation course in Humanities. The first three months were devoted to discussing the difference between homo sapiens and other animals, but did not come up with any valid answers.  I had to write an essay on the subject but was completely baffled, so I asked the first person I met at work - literally passing in a corridor - what distinguishes us from other species. Without hesitation he said "Man records anything that is too trivial to remember".

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Politicians can motivate and facilitate but it's very difficult to coerce everyone.

Except when the government has strong influence and authority over the citizens, like in China or North Korea.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I signed up for an Open University foundation course in Humanities. The first three months were devoted to discussing the difference between homo sapiens and other animals, but did not come up with any valid answers.  I had to write an essay on the subject but was completely baffled, so I asked the first person I met at work - literally passing in a corridor - what distinguishes us from other species. Without hesitation he said "Man records anything that is too trivial to remember".

In the near future, the recordings would be heavily automated. From mass surveillance system,
personal assistance, sensors in self driving cars, to internet of things and metaverse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China

[alancalverd]

The fact that crime pays - even in China - surely underlines the statement that you can't coerce everyone.

[alancalverd]

From mass surveillance system,
personal assistance, sensors in self driving cars, to internet of things and metaverse.

My point exactly - the more trivial the data, he more effort we expend recording it! Did you look both ways before you crossed the road? Yes, because it is important. Did you  write down what you saw? No! But I'm sure your WiFi toaster knows exactly how many slices of bread it has processed, and keeps updating your phone with this pointless statistic.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The fact that crime pays - even in China - surely underlines the statement that you can't coerce everyone.

That's why laws and moral rules were created. They supposed to tip the balance of cost and benefit to incentivize and encourage behaviors that benefit the society as a whole in the long run, and vice versa. They should make even selfish actions to bring benefits to the society.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The laws and moral rules don't have to be based on accurate description of objective reality. As long as they are aligned with, or at least don't contradict the goal of the society. For example, Santa Claus is good enough to make kids well behaved. Heaven and hell were good enough for bronze age through medieval societies. We created morality based on nationalism and  human rights for more modern adult humans. Some of us already extend the coverage of the rights to other animals, and even AI.
AFAIK, no one argues that we should treat bacteria and viruses nicely as if they have rights.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The laws and moral rules don't have to be based on accurate description of objective reality.

If they are based on made up stories deviating from objective reality, they won't be sustainable in the long run. They may create backlash when the conscious agents following them start to realize the truth.

Or maybe not. It depends on the agents themselves how to react to the revelation. People grow up at different rates. Physically and mentally.