[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The importance of a standard can be seen by observing the effects of removing it. It's like you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Without a standard to refer to, there's no way to clear the dispute between me and the cable seller. Thus, the most important quality of a standard is its consistency.

It's also possible to measure objects using the international standard ruler. But it won't be practical. How many measurements need to be done everyday?

Similarly, moral rules are useful for their practicality. It's easier to understand and follow rules like don't lie, don't steal, or obey your parents than implementing the universal moral standard, which is meant to achieve a long term goal. In most cases, those common moral rules are good enough. The moral standards are required to justify any exceptions.

Violating moral rules in some specific cases or situations can be morally justified if it complies with higher level moral standard, which usually involves more desired outcome for the long run.
Violation of moral rules for short term desired outcome is considered as immoral if it is expected to cause undesired long term consequences, especially when public interests are impacted.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This video can be seen as summary of some problems of morality we've discussed here.

The Psychology of Morality

What does it mean to do something good or bad? How do we know what's good or bad? How do we even know that this is a reasonable question to ask? Psychologists have been studying morality for a long time, examining how our sense of morality develops over time, and the ways that we arrive at certain decisions based on our conception of morality. This is a pretty hefty topic, but let's dig into it now. And yes, we will cover the Trolley Problem!

[alancalverd]

What does it mean to do something good or bad?

Good deeds make people happy. Bad deeds make people sad.Taking money from the taxpayer and giving it to bail out a bank or an energy company shareholder can be seen as good or bad depending on which side you are standing, so HM Government can claim to be morally neutral, and indeed adhering to the Christian moral code (Luke 19:26).

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What does it mean to do something good or bad?

Good deeds make people happy. Bad deeds make people sad.Taking money from the taxpayer and giving it to bail out a bank or an energy company shareholder can be seen as good or bad depending on which side you are standing, so HM Government can claim to be morally neutral, and indeed adhering to the Christian moral code (Luke 19:26).

There are some videos of people happily celebrating 9/11.
Universal moral standard based on universal terminal goal evaluates moral value of actions and decisions from the perspective of furthest future conscious entities as conceivable. It will inevitably involve uncertainties, risks, severities, and probabilities. When gathered information isn't enough to make adequately accurate and precise predictions, moral rules can be used as shortcuts with presumably have high probability of giving the desired results.

[alancalverd]

There are some videos of people happily celebrating 9/11.
Universal moral standard based on universal terminal goal evaluates moral value of actions and decisions from the perspective of furthest future conscious entities as conceivable.

Which rather proves my point. If the religious scum wipe out all the infidels, their descendants' perverted perspective will prevail, to the greater glory of their superstition. So there is no definable universal terminal goal: either the good guys persuade everyone to abandon religion, or we are doomed to eternal and pointless conflict until the followers of some arbitrary nonsense have eliminated everyone else.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There are some videos of people happily celebrating 9/11.
Universal moral standard based on universal terminal goal evaluates moral value of actions and decisions from the perspective of furthest future conscious entities as conceivable.

Which rather proves my point. If the religious scum wipe out all the infidels, their descendants' perverted perspective will prevail, to the greater glory of their superstition. So there is no definable universal terminal goal: either the good guys persuade everyone to abandon religion, or we are doomed to eternal and pointless conflict until the followers of some arbitrary nonsense have eliminated everyone else.

No.
The societies which will have the highest probability to prevail are those who have terminal goal closer to the universal terminal goal, and have mastered science and technology to make better predictions and planned actions to achieve their goals more effectively and efficiently.

[alancalverd]

Which so far suggests that rampant profiteering, private ownership of essential commodities, and the freedom to invade any territory you like, are the universal terminal goal.

Only fools say the crime doesn't pay. Why else would criminals do it?

Or if you want to be scientific about things, the UTG is maximum entropy, which will certainly prevail.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Which so far suggests that rampant profiteering, private ownership of essential commodities, and the freedom to invade any territory you like, are the universal terminal goal.

Only fools say the crime doesn't pay. Why else would criminals do it?

Or if you want to be scientific about things, the UTG is maximum entropy, which will certainly prevail.

Universal moral standard based on universal terminal goal can be used to measure someone's moral maturity. It evaluates how far ahead they consider the consequences of their actions and decisions. Infants only considers almost immediate consequences of their actions. Bigger kids may consider for a few days/months ahead. Simple minded people may consider for a few years ahead. Wiser people may consider the consequences a few decades or centuries ahead, even to the time when they are no longer alive.
If you don't consider the consequences of your actions and decisions beyond your own individual lives, you are not morally mature enough yet, according to the universal terminal goal. Your age isn't necessarily reflect your moral maturity. If you are already old but your moral value is still not mature yet, it means that your morality has grown too slow.

[alancalverd]

Those who claim divine inspiration tend to talk about eternal consequences, and apparently this leads them to despise and kill one another in pursuit of the UTG.

Disgusting behavior isn't confined to theists. The Thousand Year Reich was, according to your analysis, based on a very high moral standard.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Sooner or later we, or our descendants will have to deal with the great filter. If none of us survive, then everything we've done will stop being meaningful. But if there are survivors, then our actions will be judged by the consequences to affect their chance of survival. Our action will be deemed moral if it increases their survival rate, and immoral if it decreases their survival rate.

If you assume that none will survive, and act accordingly, you will likely be judged as immoral by those survivors. If we keep surviving the great filters, we will eventually be part of interstellar civilization. The key concepts relevant to the situation is increasing our consciousness level, which means that we continuously reduce our dependence on our environmental conditions.

[alancalverd]

There will be survivors, mostly cockroaches and dogs, who have more important things to do than worry about universal goals and morals.

Be kind to your dog and, like the cockroach, he will wait until you are dead before eating you.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There will be survivors, mostly cockroaches and dogs, who have more important things to do than worry about universal goals and morals.

Be kind to your dog and, like the cockroach, he will wait until you are dead before eating you.

They won't survive when the earth is drowned into the sun.

[alancalverd]

If none of us survive, then everything we've done will stop being meaningful.

It isn't anyway. The graveyards are full of men who used to be indispensable.There is no ultimate meaning or purpose - these concepts only have validity in the context of a finite existence.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Those who claim divine inspiration tend to talk about eternal consequences, and apparently this leads them to despise and kill one another in pursuit of the UTG.

Disgusting behavior isn't confined to theists. The Thousand Year Reich was, according to your analysis, based on a very high moral standard.

You seem to have learned a lot of bitter past experiences which make you struggle to imagine the possibilities of better future.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If none of us survive, then everything we've done will stop being meaningful.

It isn't anyway. The graveyards are full of men who used to be indispensable.There is no ultimate meaning or purpose - these concepts only have validity in the context of a finite existence.

If our action today saves someone's life, or at least makes his life easier,  and then he lives for another year, then it would be meaningful for at least a year. If during his life he helps someone else who in turn helps someone else, then our actions will keep being meaningful for much longer through cascade causality.
If human descendants survive for another thousand years, then our good deeds will keep being meaningful for that thousand years. If they can survive for another trillion years, then our good deeds will keep being meaningful for that trillion  years.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If you intentionally limit the scope of analyses for consequences of our actions in time and space, and ignore its indirect consequences, then it would be inevitable that you will fail to find the universal moral standard based on the universal terminal goal.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Here is a video to describe what might happen to anyone who said that there's no universal moral standard based on the universal terminal goal. They may have analyzed thousands of moral standards and found out that none of them is qualified. Thus when a stranger claims to have found that universal moral standard, they are almost certain that it's a false claim. 

[alancalverd]

You seem to have learned a lot of bitter past experiences which make you struggle to imagine the possibilities of better future.

Would that be the one dominated by Putin and the Russian Orthodox mafia, the Islamic State, or the National Rifle Anti-abortion worshippers of Jesus Trump?

[alancalverd]

If our action today saves someone's life, or at least makes his life easier,  and then he lives for another year, then it would be meaningful for at least a year.

No, just meaningless for longer.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

You seem to have learned a lot of bitter past experiences which make you struggle to imagine the possibilities of better future.

Would that be the one dominated by Putin and the Russian Orthodox mafia, the Islamic State, or the National Rifle Anti-abortion worshippers of Jesus Trump?

Have you heard something about AGI? What about UBI?
Can you imagine lives of human descendants a thousand years from now? I expect that all of the things you mentioned will be the losing sides due to their ineffectiveness and inefficiency.