[Zer0]

They are somewhat conscious, because their considerations are short sighted. They are unlikely to be the dominant type of people in a society. Their consciousness can be a bit higher than children, but clearly lower than average adults.

Sorry, but That seems a bit Incorrect.
I know a few examples of Sterile/Impotent individuals, who are Very Dominating, and They do hold Power to Influence society.

Philosophy is bunk.

lol
🤭

P.S. - Do not be sad or bothered about Philosophers & their Philosophies, Eventually They will all Die.
✌️

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Sorry, but That seems a bit Incorrect.
I know a few examples of Sterile/Impotent individuals, who are Very Dominating, and They do hold Power to Influence society.

What I meant was they won't be likely to become the majority in a society, especially in the long run. Do they support the offspring of others? Because I was responding to Alan's objection.

Clearly untrue. I know several childless people who have no desire (or in some cases ability) to procreate or support the offspring of others.

Their power to influence society must come from somewhere. It can come by inheritance, or success in business or political carrier. If that power came illegitimately, than we can say that they are parasites. To get rid of those parasites, the society needs to have some defense mechanisms, for example, some formal laws and constitutions.

[alancalverd]

What influence have the children of Karl Marx, Pope John Paul II, Adolf Hitler, Jesus Christ.... had on society? And did these rather significant characters themselves inherit power and influence?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What influence have the children of Karl Marx, Pope John Paul II, Adolf Hitler, Jesus Christ.... had on society? And did these rather significant characters themselves inherit power and influence?

In conscious organisms, genetic transfer/inheritance is not the only factor influencing their future. Their ideas can have bigger impacts than their genes.

[alancalverd]

Of all those I quoted, only the Pope and Hitler acquired power or influence legitimately. Doesn't bode well for a future democratic society.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Of all those I quoted, only the Pope and Hitler acquired power or influence legitimately. Doesn't bode well for a future democratic society.

How do you define legitimate here?
Do you mean formal, i.e. based on some agreed written rules?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Unbelievable Theories

This video outlines the view that there might be theories that are true, and for which we can give sound arguments, but that cannot be believed. See Bart Streumer's book "Unbelievable Errors".

0:00 - Introduction
0:51 - Normative error theory
3:31 - What is belief?
11:34 - Why we cannot believe error theory
13:20 - Is unbelievability a problem?
15:52 - Moorean paradoxes
21:32 - Reflective equilibrium
31:16 - How unbelievability can strengthen a theory

It reminds me of a video I posted in another thread.

Will Your Code Write Itself?

Artificial Intelligence solutions are taking over software development tasks. Where is this going?

We should not forget that software development is just an instrumental goal. It serves as a mean to achieve a terminal goal.
The same thing can be said to any other human activities, such as getting a job, earning money, eating food, drinking water, breathing air, sleeping, watching TV, having sex, etc. When we find a better alternative to achieve the terminal goal more effectively and efficiently, we should not hesitate to at least try it and eventually leave the old ways behind.

[alancalverd]

Of all those I quoted, only the Pope and Hitler acquired power or influence legitimately. Doesn't bode well for a future democratic society.

How do you define legitimate here?
Do you mean formal, i.e. based on some agreed written rules?

By a majority vote. Like Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, GWBush-Blair, and pretty well everyone whose lifetime achievement was to damage civilisation. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

By a majority vote. Like Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, GWBush-Blair, and pretty well everyone whose lifetime achievement was to damage civilisation.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices
George Orwell

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

All actions that we call immoral can be related to aiming for short term benefits while sacrificing long term goals.

INSIDE JOB Full Documentary Movie - How the Financial Crisis Happened

In this video, we're watching the Inside Job movie, which tells the story of how the Wall Street bankers orchestrated the largest financial fraud in history.

Inside Job is a 2010 American documentary film, directed by Charles Ferguson, about the late 2000s financial crisis.

The global financial meltdown that took place in Fall of 2008 caused millions of job and home losses and plunged the United States into a deep economic recession.

This documentary provides a detailed examination of the elements that led to the collapse and identifies key financial and political players.

Director Charles Ferguson conducts a wide range of interviews and traces the story from the United States to China to Iceland to several other global financial hot spots.

Ferguson, who began researching in 2008, says the film is about "the systemic corruption of the United States by the financial services industry and the consequences of that systemic corruption". In five parts, the film explores how changes in the policy, environment and banking practices helped create the financial crisis.

If you're interested in learning more about the stock market or inflation, then this is the movie for you! This documentary provides an in-depth look at the events that led to the 2008 financial crisis, and how the Wall Street bankers are still Trying to milk the system. Click the link to watch now and learn more!

Timestamps

0:00 - Deregulation in Iceland and privatization of banks (Pre Intro)
06:05 - Introduction
12:05 - Part I - How We Got Here
31:02 - Part II - The Bubble (2001-2007)
57:04 - Part III - The Crisis
1:17:23 - Part IV - Accountability
1:33:33 - Part V - Where Are We Now

[alancalverd]

Quote
A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices
George Orwell

Good one! That's why I didn't vote in the last general election.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Here's some quotes with similar meanings.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/12/04/good-men-do/

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
John F. Kennedy? Edmund Burke? R. Murray Hyslop? Charles F. Aked? John Stuart Mill?

“For evil men to accomplish their purpose, it is only necessary that good men do nothing,”

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The One Thing That Would Make Elections Better For Everyone | Robert Reich

Why not let people vote for the candidates they actually like, instead of forcing them to vote against candidates they hate?

Ranked choice voting is the answer.

I've come up with similar idea during first direct presidential election in my country, and shared it in a local forum a few years later. My consideration was efficiency, which was to avoid the necessity for a second round election.

[alancalverd]

And what if you don't like any of those on offer?

At the last general election my choice was between three people who saw their function as representing their party's line to me, not representing me to government.  Two of the parties had shown themselves to be corrupt and unfit to govern, and the third was incapable of sacking  a leader who supported terrorism.   

[Zer0]

the universal moral standard.

...which is....?

The only similarity applicable to every conscious being, regardless of their shape, form, size, and ingredients, is that they want to extend the existence of consciousness further into the future.

I find this very relatable & meaningful.
I myself want Consciousness to exist in the future.
Humans or Transhumans or post humans or even A.G.I. simply matters Not in what form it exists, i just want it to continue.
But i do Not know or understand Why i hope & wish for that to happen?
(maybe that is just an inner biological instinct or something)

P.S. - All this Politics & Elections talk reminded me of a great tall speech from a short little dictator...Hope the OP won't mind me putting it in here, n Wish his ideology remains forever.

Million Thanks & Respects/Credits for Colour & Subtitles/Source. -
Sir Charles Spencer Chaplin/nonkonform1st Channel/YouTube.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

And what if you don't like any of those on offer?

At the last general election my choice was between three people who saw their function as representing their party's line to me, not representing me to government.  Two of the parties had shown themselves to be corrupt and unfit to govern, and the third was incapable of sacking  a leader who supported terrorism.   

You can run for office yourself, and try to convince your constituents that you are better than your competitors.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I find this very relatable & meaningful.
I myself want Consciousness to exist in the future.
Humans or Transhumans or post humans or even A.G.I. simply matters Not in what form it exists, i just want it to continue.
But i do Not know or understand Why i hope & wish for that to happen?
(maybe that is just an inner biological instinct or something)

As I mentioned in my video on consciousness from timestamp 3:17, goals or preferred states can emerge initially by random chance. Natural selection will take care of the next development and evolution of those goals.

here it is.
Defining consciousness as the core concept in the universal terminal goal using only the requirements from the phrase and some basic knowledge of computational process.

If you think that the definition and model of consciousness in the video can be improved, or even if you have your own definition or model which you think is better in any way, please let me know. We can discuss further to get the best possible definition and model that we can come up with.

Instincts and reflex can emerge naturally in evolutionary process. Organisms lack of necessary reflexes and instincts to survive are likely to go extinct.
You can get your preference to continue the existence of consciousness genetically in the form of instinct. You can also acquire that from communication with your surrounding people, parents, teachers, neighbors, friends, or from mass media.

Wanting consciousness to exist in the future is one logical option. The second alternative is wanting consciousness to stop existing in the future. Third alternative is simply don't care whether consciousness exist in the future. Any conscious entity can be classified in one of those general groups. Any existing conscious agent must have come from the first group in the past. The other groups are extremely unlikely to produce future conscious agents.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Where is the Line Between GOOD & EVIL?

When we demonize something in the external world, we reveal a void in our own psyche. When we try to dehumanize another or villainize something, we only reveal our own ignorance. When we promote shame, blame and punishment, we reveal just how little we know about our own inner demons and our nature.
The ones who are able to look within themselves and separate their true essence from their ego will stand as a beacon of hope for others. The ones who can emancipate themselves from ideology, tribalism, the fixation with external enemies and look within their own heart, with humility and honesty, will emerge with a heightened awareness... This is the beginning of freedom.

There are some things we can learn from this video. People who do the evil things are usually convinced that what they do are good, which means that they would lead to the achievement of their terminal goals.
Realizing that we can make errors is good. But it should not prevent us from thinking and make necessary actions and decisions to stop others who are doing the wrong things. That's why understanding the concept of universal terminal goal, universal moral standard, and building an accurate and precise virtual universe to predict the consequences of our actions become important.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Shocking Study Reveals How Anyone Can Become Evil

When a study put people's empathy towards one another to the test, there are some shocking results. In today's animated education cartoon we look at how a person's judgement is affected when under supervision by an authoritative personality.

[alancalverd]

It doesn't even need supervision. Permission or even opportunity are often enough.