[Zer0]

AGI on the other hand, might Change it's previous Decision half way thru the process of achieving the Goal.

That's normal for any conscious entities. Decisions are made based on known conditions, which are expected to bring most desired outcome. When the conditions change, the decisions may change as well. Longer term goals are less likely to change.
The challenge is to select the correct terminal goal in the first place so there will be no reason to change it afterwards.

What holiday/picnic/vacation spot would 8 Billion humans agree on?
& Does an Individual have a Choice to just stay@home?

[Zer0]

Imagine conducting an Election...
In which All votes have to say
' Yes '..
& Total number of Voters is Infinite.
(voting begins but never ends)

Voting should be considered as an instrumental goal. In your case, they should have considered better alternatives to achieve their terminal goal.

The Only alternative is to pause Time.

[Zer0]

I'm not opposing the Universality ideology, just feel it's a bit Unrealistic, that's all.

Which part of it do you consider unrealistic?
Do you know of any more realistic alternatives?

The " Universal " part.
If a whole city agrees & accepts it, then it becomes a City moral standard.
Similarly...
State moral standard.
Country/Nation moral standard.
Continental moral standard.
Planetary moral standard.
Interplanetary, Galactic, Intergalactic, Clusterial, Interclusterial, Observable universe & then finally " Universal Moral Standard ".

A roadside ice-cream vendor sells a flavour named ' World's Best ' .
I like it, but i know it's a Lie!


The only alternative that i can think of towards achieving such a Universal goal might be to act like ' Thee Borg ' in Star Trek Universe.
(Borg always fails, but keeps tryin)

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The " Universal " part.
If a whole city agrees & accepts it, then it becomes a City moral standard.
Similarly...
State moral standard.
Country/Nation moral standard.
Continental moral standard.
Planetary moral standard.
Interplanetary, Galactic, Intergalactic, Clusterial, Interclusterial, Observable universe & then finally " Universal Moral Standard ".

You can expand the scope by space like that. You can also expand the scope by similarities.
Let's start by individual moral standards. For the sake of the argument, assume that it's the smallest unit of consciousness where morality can be applied.
It can be expanded to siblings moral standards. Then clan's, tribe, race, species, genus, phylum, base chemicals, and finally universal moral standard. However you divide them, they will converge if their scope is expanded enough.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A roadside ice-cream vendor sells a flavour named ' World's Best ' .
I like it, but i know it's a Lie!

How do you know?
Is there any chance, however slightly, that it turns out to be true?
What are the criteria for best in their claim?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The only alternative that i can think of towards achieving such a Universal goal might be to act like ' Thee Borg ' in Star Trek Universe.
(Borg always fails, but keeps tryin)

The alternatives to the universal moral standard are non-universal moral standards.
The criterion of universality is in its applicability. We can't fully apply Andromedan moral standard if we're not Andromedan ourselves. Although we can still apply some portions of it which intersect with humans moral standard.

We can choose to apply a moral standard, but we can also choose to ignore it, or even deliberately violate it. In the latter cases, our actions may be in conflict with the interest of those who choose to apply it. If the conflict is irreconcilable, it can escalate to war and end up with the perishment of one or both sides.

[alancalverd]

Never mind ice cream. Every book for sale at the airport bookshop is a "best seller".

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Never mind ice cream. Every book for sale at the airport bookshop is a "best seller".

Perhaps they were really best seller for a day, or an hour.

[Zer0]

A roadside ice-cream vendor sells a flavour named ' World's Best ' .
I like it, but i know it's a Lie!

1) How do you know?
2) Is there any chance, however slightly, that it turns out to be true?
3) What are the criteria for best in their claim?

1) Common Sense.
2) Rationality Disagrees.
3) Figments of their own Imagination.

[alancalverd]

Never mind ice cream. Every book for sale at the airport bookshop is a "best seller".

Perhaps they were really best seller for a day, or an hour.

Even assuming anyone would know, surely you have to print the cover before you sell any?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Never mind ice cream. Every book for sale at the airport bookshop is a "best seller".

Perhaps they were really best seller for a day, or an hour.

Even assuming anyone would know, surely you have to print the cover before you sell any?

They can print second edition after the first has been sold out. Hence you are just experiencing survivor bias.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A roadside ice-cream vendor sells a flavour named ' World's Best ' .
I like it, but i know it's a Lie!

1) How do you know?
2) Is there any chance, however slightly, that it turns out to be true?
3) What are the criteria for best in their claim?

1) Common Sense.
2) Rationality Disagrees.
3) Figments of their own Imagination.

Even common sense has underlying calculations, although usually involve implicit assumptions. Rational discussion requires identification of those assumptions.
Is there guarantee that it must be false?
Some common justification for claims of best food products, tastiest, most nutritious, cheapest, least undesired effects, etc.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Study of morality can be helped by comparing with its opposite, which is immorality or evil.

Most Evil Kids in the History of Mankind

Some kids are born all bad! Check out today's insane new video that puts some of the deadliest kid crimes under the spotlight! You won't believe how evil some of these kids turned out to be!

[Zer0]

Definitions have Emphasis.

I could buy that iscream everyday, but irrespective of howmanyever times i lick it, it won't turn into the " World's Best "!

Coz i am i, Not the World.


If i author 5 different books, & only One copy of 1 out of the 5 books is sold, then that One book out of the 5 in my definition becomes a " Best Seller "!

Do Not Buy, if you seek that which is Unique.


Any specific set of Morals could have the Potential to become Universal standards.

But inorder to Define them as truly Universal would require the Acceptances/Agreements of the whole Universe.

(majority rules, minority suffers)


ps - Probably the world's best & Maybe the best seller, makes alot of Sense in terms of Personal Truths.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

(majority rules, minority suffers)

What were once the majority can one day switc to be the minority, and vice versa. They can even go extinct.  It depends on how they make decisions.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

JESUS CULT of HUMAN SACRIFICE - Sam Harris vs Jordan Peterson

A significant part of morality is about delayed gratification. Sowing seeds now to reap crops later on. It's particularly useful for overcoming local minima in optimization problems. But it can also go wrong when we have some false assumptions.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Save The Boy? 4 Moral Thinkers Have Different Opinions

Would you save a boy who is drowning in front of your eyes? And thinking about this question, do you base your answer on the character you strive to become, on the behavior you want to see in the world, a costs and benefit analysis, your own self interest, or would you just follow what feels right? Let?s try to answer these questions with the theory of four famous thinkers :Aristotle, Kant, Nietzsche and  Mill.

Those thinkers seem to confuse between terminal goal and instrumental goals, which forces them to make exceptions in some situations.
If a society embrace and consistently apply a moral standard that generally harm themselves in the long run, they will eventually stop existing or the moral standard will be abandoned.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

TRUE EVIL DOESN'T EXIST - Socrates Philosophy

The title sounds like No true Scotsman fallacy. That's what we get when we exclude an obvious counter example. Although natural selection has kept its occurrence pretty low.

[alancalverd]

Would I save a drowning child? All depends on statistics and risk assessment.

Most people are reasonable and grateful if you save their lives. So the first position is to assume the kid doesn't want to drown and isn't particularly evil. So you save him. If he really wants to die, he has he rest of his life to kill himself in my absence. If he turns out to be evil, I can kill him.

Now we look at the circumstances. If I can't swim, or judge that despite my being an Olympic medallist and Coastguard lifesaver the cold/tide/rocks/alligators will kill me anyway, there's no point in making two corpses. Sadly, heroism, altruism or ignorance frequently outweigh the rational decision - in the absence of evidence or experience we tend to assume the best, and end up as a minor news item.  The decision is a bit easier but more painful for a  lifeboat or helicopter captain - you are doing the job that you chose and trained for, possibly for the only time in  your career, but you can't endanger your crew if the situation is beyond your technical limit.  And it's tough for the "dope on a rope" - the paramedic or swimmer who is focussed on making actual contact, but has to submit to the skipper's decision to abandon the rescue.

[alancalverd]

TRUE EVIL DOESN'T EXIST

...because evil is an adjective, not a noun.