[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

When we buy complex medical equipment it comes with a checklist of levels, torques, voltages etc for the  installing engineer to complete. Against each parameter there are two columns: German manufacturers succinctly head them soll (ought - factory limits) and ist (is - actual site measurements).

Not a problem, more of a solution.

Can the "ought" values be purely derived by "is" values?
That's the question.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

We just commissioned a plant UPS to back up the power supply to production plant in case of mains failure.
The UPS batteries ought to handle 500 kW power for 10 minutes during power outage, because the diesel genset takes some time to start up until it's ready to take over the load.
During commissioning it was found that the UPS batteries can only handle 500 kW power for 7 minutes.

Can the "ought" values be purely derived by "is" values?
That's the question.

[alancalverd]

Can the "ought" values be purely derived by "is" values?

Obviously not! "Ought " is a design specification, "is" is a performance measurement. A system can't perform until it's built, you can't build it until the design is complete, and you can't design it until you have a specification. A ton of aluminum ingots won't fly, but if you want a plane that travels at 150 mph someone will design it, build it (from a ton of aluminum ingots) , and then demonstrate how close the ist is to the soll.

So in relation to your UPS, what specification underpins the purchase contract?  Here's a cautionary tale:

There are about 15 pieces of wood in a door frame.

Our hero (probably an accountant) wanted to add an extra door to his kitchen so he measured every piece of the existing frame, to within 0.1 mm, then presented his specification to a carpentry shop.  Next day he went in to collect his kit and was given a pile of sticks, some with knots, some with bark, some green, some bent, and all different timbers. He complained. The shop manager produced a tape measure and micrometer, showed him that each piece was exactly as specified, and demanded payment for his precision cutting and shaping.

At this point a woman walked into the shop and passed her ticket to the clerk, who produced a beautiful piece of polished oak, 400 x 200 x 22 mm, edge bevelled, with a 12 mm hole centered in each radiused corner. The bloke looked in amazement and said "What specification did she order?"   "She asked us to make a seat for her kids' swing".

Moral: say what you want - don't tell the engineer/surgeon/pilot/carpenter how to do it.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So in relation to your UPS, what specification underpins the purchase contract?  Here's a cautionary tale:

The battery UPS is meant to replace previous UPS with mechanical energy storage using flywheel. The high maintenance cost and complexity were the reasons, besides the reliability issue, related to travel restriction during the pandemic which prevented vendor's engineers to visit and maintain it properly.

The UPS batteries ought to handle 500 kW power for 10 minutes during power outage, because the diesel genset takes some time to start up until it's ready to take over the load.

In normal condition, the backup diesel genset can start to provide power less than 1 minute after mains failure. But there were times when it took longer, and sometimes it needed operator's interventions.
The 10 minutes expectation for the new UPS was based on cost and benefit considerations, technical discussion and negotiation with the vendor.

[alancalverd]

My sympathies!

There's much to be said for a mechanical flywheel, particularly if its job is to start a diesel generator - the "state of charge" is obvious and you don't have problems with printed circuit or battery terminal corrosion, rats eating the control cables, electrical sparks igniting fuel vapor.....just engage the clutch (with a big handle - none of that electrical nonsense) and watch the emergency lighting come on.

But the awful word "expectation" smells of a committee decision, not a performance specification!

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Analysis from first Site Acceptance Test identified  the cause of underperformance was the temperature of battery room was too high. The Air Conditioner was not activated yet.
Yesterday we run second test, with active Air Conditioner. The battery can provide the required power for 9'55'', which was reasonably close to our expectation.

[alancalverd]

So now you need a backup battery to keep the aircon working when the UPS is in use...... The flywheel seems like a better idea!

At least your problem is static and potentially fixable. Part of the fun with electric cars is the temperature sensitivity of the batteries - you can't charge them at full rate when they are too hot (i.e. just after you've used them) and they won't deliver full power when they are too cold (you have to use the battery to preheat itself!) One day, someone will invent the internal combustion engine, or maybe the horse, and all our problems will be solved.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So now you need a backup battery to keep the aircon working when the UPS is in use...... The flywheel seems like a better idea!

We also use AC for the flywheel UPS. I don't think that is the differentiating factor.
As I mentioned earlier, 7 minutes is more than enough in most cases. The flywheel UPS only provides even less than that.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Rep. Porter grills Big Pharma CEO for price gouging

Half a million dollars.

That's the bonus a Big Pharma CEO got for hiking the price of ONE cancer treatment drug.

How many patients lost their lives because they couldn't afford this medicine? Here's our conversation.

The morality level of a conscious entity can be measured by its consideration in time and space dimensions. Babies don't consider the consequences of their actions much longer than a few seconds. They don't care what happens further than a few meters from them.
That's why their parents as the authority must set the rules to align their behavior with higher morality levels as they grow up to adulthood.

Similar things also apply to organizations like companies and governments.

[alancalverd]

This argument presumes a universal human right to be cured from all diseases. Problem with that is that we would all live for ever and starve to death on an overcrowded planet, were it not for the universal human right to extract unlimited food and water from a finite planet.

Rights are dangerous!

Nobody lost their lives because they couldn't afford a drug - they lost their lives because they were ill. Otherwise logic requires you to blame scientists who haven't been born yet for failing to develop the treatment that might have cured their great-grandparents.

So the moral questions are

1. what is wrong with someone making a profit on something he has invented or legitimately purchased from the inventor?

2. what is right about advertising a desirable product to people who can't afford it?

and to remove the emotional aspect of the questions, forget drugs and think Rolls Royce Phantom.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This argument presumes a universal human right to be cured from all diseases.

Have you watched the video?
Where do you get that assumption from?

1. what is wrong with someone making a profit on something he has invented or legitimately purchased from the inventor?

The problem being pointed out here is more like gambling with other people's money. They democratize loss and privatize gain. 3 B tax payers money has been used in the research. If it failed, people would lose money for nothing.
The benefits should be proportional to the stake in the research.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Problem with that is that we would all live for ever and starve to death on an overcrowded planet, were it not for the universal human right to extract unlimited food and water from a finite planet.

They will compete for the resources.
Fair competitions usually produce good results.
Let's not be hysterical. People will adapt to new environmental conditions. Not so long ago people can easily die from infections. We don't normalize it now.
When life expectancy increases, reproduction starting age tends to follow.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

and to remove the emotional aspect of the questions, forget drugs and think Rolls Royce Phantom.

What about drinking water source in a village getting hit by drought?
I see emotions as shortcuts to make decisions when the time to consider the consequences of each available options is inadequate.
What are the consequences of increasing the price of Rolls Royce Phantom by 10 times?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

2. what is right about advertising a desirable product to people who can't afford it?

It can encourage people to work harder and be more productive so they can afford the desired product.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A similar situation happened around last decade.

'Our Cancer Drug Is For Rich Westerners, Not Poor Indians'

"In 2005, the FDA granted approval for a promising new cancer-fighting drug called Nexavar. Bayer took it to market shortly thereafter, and it is currently an approved treatment for late-stage kidney and liver cancer.

That is, so long as you live in the developed world. In a recently published interview in Bloomberg Businessweek, Bayer CEO Marijn Dekkers said that his company's drug isn't for poor people.

"We did not develop this medicine for Indians...we developed it for western patients who can afford it," he said back in December. The quote is quickly making its way across Indian news outlets.

The comment was in response to a decision by an Indian patent court that granted a compulsory license to a local company to reproduce Bayer's drug."* The Young Turks hosts Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian break it down.

[alancalverd]

Where do you get that assumption from?

It would be illogical to single out any one disease, surely? Therefore the assumption must be that we have a right of cure from all of them.

[alancalverd]

Fair competitions usually produce good results.

For the winners, certainly. If everyone wins, it's called collaboration, not competition.

[alancalverd]

It can encourage people to work harder and be more productive so they can afford the desired product.

Difficult, if you are suffering from terminal cancer.

[alancalverd]

People will adapt to new environmental conditions. Not so long ago people can easily die from infections. We don't normalize it now.

Because we have changed the environment, not adapted to it!

"If you want to save one life you need a doctor. If you want to save a million, you need an engineer."

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

It can encourage people to work harder and be more productive so they can afford the desired product.

Difficult, if you are suffering from terminal cancer.

Their family members can make the additional efforts for them.