[alancalverd]

But we can point out the losers.

The student of maths or science quickly learns that there is an infinity of wrong answers and one correct one. Unlike philosophy where there is an infinity of answers with no definition of "correct", or economics where the answer is correct but the question is wrong.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Moral questions are similar to "long horizon," sparse reward tasks. Finding the best possible decisions and actions for long term results requires neural networks with adequate depth and breadth, with optimal and efficient algorithms.

For billions of years, our ancestors have been playing a sparse reward game called life. We only know we haven't lost yet while we are conscious. Some of us don't even realize what game we are playing.

[alancalverd]

There is no long term reward in life (unless you think death is a Good Thing), only the joy of living.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There is no long term reward in life (unless you think death is a Good Thing), only the joy of living.

That's because your mind is still restricted by individual thinking.

[alancalverd]

That's the intellectual difference between humans and ants. History shows the dangers of humans persuaded to behave like ants.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

only the joy of living.

What is joy of living?

[alancalverd]

It's what makes me get out of bed. Or into bed.

[alancalverd]

Are 17 years old humans children?

Yes: there is no evidence of the spontaneous generation of humans. National law arbitrarily defines an adult for legal purposes, with the line generally drawn somewhere between 13 and 18.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

It's what makes me get out of bed. Or into bed.

It also made Ted Bundy had sex with dead women.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Are 17 years old humans children?

Yes: there is no evidence of the spontaneous generation of humans. National law arbitrarily defines an adult for legal purposes, with the line generally drawn somewhere between 13 and 18.

It means children are also arbitrary.

I think we all know what "children" means, but "universal", "wrong" and "harm" mean different things in different contexts.

[alancalverd]

Every adult is someone's child. Not every child is an adult. Those people who are not adults have some additional statutory protections.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Every adult is someone's child. Not every child is an adult. Those people who are not adults have some additional statutory protections.

So, children mean different things in different context.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

It's what makes me get out of bed. Or into bed.

It also made Ted Bundy had sex with dead women.

There are many other odd behaviors we can find in literature. Some have negative impacts, while some others have positive impacts on the society, which in turn will bring positive impact on future generations. Many of those behaviors are driven by dopamine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

In popular culture and media, dopamine is often portrayed as the main chemical of pleasure, but the current opinion in pharmacology is that dopamine instead confers motivational salience;[6][7][8] in other words, dopamine signals the perceived motivational prominence (i.e., the desirability or aversiveness) of an outcome, which in turn propels the organism's behavior toward or away from achieving that outcome.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture.

The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.

But no.

Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die.

You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal.

A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery.

Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said."
We are at our best when we serve others. 

Be civilized.

Credit: Ira Byock.

https://twitter.com/CalltoActivism/status/1710435808144932984

[alancalverd]

Fairly typical of Margaret Mead's sloppy thinking. Most quadrupeds (possibly not kangaroos) can survive with 3 functional legs, and most insects, arthropods and reptiles can function minus a limb or grow another leg if they need to.   

Civilisation is indeed mankind's adaptation to his physical fragility, but it pays to be a bit more observant and rigorous than the redoubtable Ms Mead.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Most quadrupeds (possibly not kangaroos) can survive with 3 functional legs,

Do you have a source?
Have you taken into account for predators and microbial infections?

Losing a leg is one thing. Breaking its main bone and live long enough to heal it is another story.

[alancalverd]

You might also define civilisation as organising the cleverest and fittest members of a group to devise and execute the most effective means of harming others. Or the least logical reason for doing so.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What do you mean with others?
What makes a reason less logical?

[alancalverd]

1. War
2. Religion or politics

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

1. War
2. Religion or politics

1. Are all conflicts war?
2. Is there a better alternative?