[alancalverd]

Been there, done that. Death is all that's left.

[Origin]

There is no universal moral standard, there is not even a global moral standard. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There is no universal moral standard, there is not even a global moral standard. 

What's the difference between them?

[Origin]

What's the difference between them?

Global has to do with the globe and universal has to do with the universe.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What's the difference between them?

Global has to do with the globe and universal has to do with the universe.

How do you know that they don't exist?

[Origin]

How do you know that they don't exist?

People can have morals.  The universe and planets do not have morals.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

How do you know that they don't exist?

People can have morals.  The universe and planets do not have morals.

Can anything other than people have morals?
How do you define people? Are they limited to Homo sapiens only?

[alancalverd]

Depends on how you define morals. We can find common behaviors in many species of social animals, which suggests common motivations and responses. Only homo sapiens is stupid enough to waste time worrying about it.   

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Depends on how you define morals. We can find common behaviors in many species of social animals, which suggests common motivations and responses. Only homo sapiens is stupid enough to waste time worrying about it.   

It depends on how you define stupid.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The deadliest dictator.

The  moral of the story is, try not to be on the wrong side of history. Our actions will be evaluated by future conscious entities.

[alancalverd]

How to define stupid:

Wasting time on philosophy
thinking that we are qualitatively different from or more cosmically important than any other animal
allowing politicians to tell you what to do
having faith
killing people because they have a different faith
making babies we can't feed, then regretting it

the list goes on, but life is too short to waste enumerating human stupidities

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Depends on how you define morals.

Let's start with standard definition from dictionary, which is
"principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior".
Which in turn requires the definition for right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
Which in turn depends on our terminal goals.
If our terminal goals are set randomly, some of them will lead us to extinction quickly, while some others will help us to survive longer.
The universal terminal goal is the one which is the most likely to help us stay conscious the longest. I called it the universal moral compass.
Our finite capacity to process information inevitably forces us to deal with probability, instead of deterministic calculations in our decision making process.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

How to define stupid:

Wasting time on philosophy
thinking that we are qualitatively different from or more cosmically important than any other animal
allowing politicians to tell you what to do
having faith
killing people because they have a different faith
making babies we can't feed, then regretting it

the list goes on, but life is too short to waste enumerating human stupidities

Let's keep it simple, by mentioning only its defining characteristics so we can distinguish stupid things from the other things.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The True Story of How GPT-2 Became Maximally Lewd

In this video, we recount an incident that occurred at OpenAI while researchers were trying to finetune GPT-2 to be as helpful and ethical as possible. It's narrated that inadvertently flipping a single minus sign led GPT-2 to become the embodiment of a well-known cardinal sin.

Similar incidents might have happened to people who became evil or immoral. Some incidents or events might have caused some forms of misalignment to their goal.

[alancalverd]

No misalignment to goal in the cases of the Crusades, Inquisition, Nazis, Pol Pot, Donald Trump, Liz Truss.....All set their goals and pursued them with considerable accuracy and efficiency. And with significant public approval too, so there was nothing bizarre about the goals. Just wrong, by any civilised standard. So no evidence of a universal moral standard there.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

No misalignment to goal in the cases of the Crusades, Inquisition, Nazis, Pol Pot, Donald Trump, Liz Truss.....All set their goals and pursued them with considerable accuracy and efficiency. And with significant public approval too, so there was nothing bizarre about the goals. Just wrong, by any civilised standard. So no evidence of a universal moral standard there.

Their terminal goals were misaligned from the universal terminal goal, or at least the goals of larger society. That's why if they were given more power than what they had, the destruction of the society that they cause would be bigger.

[Origin]

Is there a terminal goal for thread or is it never ending?

[alancalverd]

Their terminal goals were misaligned from the universal terminal goal, or at least the goals of larger society.

Watch what happens to the USA over the next few years. Putin's puppet will achieve their goal of destroying democracy by popular request and the larger society will rule what used to be the civilised world. Meanwhile religion will continue to infect everyone else, with massive popular support. for the genocide it justifies. The goal of "larger society" appears to be self-annihilation.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Is there a terminal goal for thread or is it never ending?

Yes, it is to give people awareness of the universal moral standard based on the universal terminal goal, and popularize its usage, especially by decision makers that would affect a lot of people.
So far, the progress still seems slow. It may even sound impossible, but as Nelson Mandela said, "It always seems impossible until it's done."
If my idea is truly universal, then sooner or later someone else will also come to the same conclusion. The only thing that can prevent it from happening is if we are extinct first.
By discussing it in a science forum, I hope to get some feed back to help me identify mistakes or fallacies in my argumentations, or something that I've overlooked.

[alancalverd]

Yes, it is to give people awareness of the universal moral standard based on the universal terminal goal,

I think you need to prove an existence theorem for both entities, then describe them, before attempting to broadcast them.