[Origin]

Are you actively pursuing that goal?

Yes, everyday I get 1 day closer to the ultimate goal.

How effectively and efficiently is your effort to achieve that goal?

I am being extremely efficient and effective because I know with 100% confidence the terminal goal will be reached.

[Origin]

Adherence to the universal terminal goal is universally required for any conscious entity who will exist in the future. Those who actively obstruct its achievement are called immoral, because they violate the universal moral standard.

2 points:
1.  These immoral people who violate the universal moral standard prove (according to you) that your universal terminal goal is incorrect.
2.  According to you one of these immoral segments of people are parents that would sacrifice their lives to save their children.  I have to say that doesn't seem like something I personally would call an immoral act.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Are you actively pursuing that goal?

Yes, everyday I get 1 day closer to the ultimate goal.

How effectively and efficiently is your effort to achieve that goal?

I am being extremely efficient and effective because I know with 100% confidence the terminal goal will be reached.

You are certainly more effective and efficient if you demonstrably reach your goal faster and cheaper.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

2 points:
1.  These immoral people who violate the universal moral standard prove (according to you) that your universal terminal goal is incorrect.

By definition, the purpose of morality is to distinguish between good and bad behaviors. Your understanding of universal moral standard violates this definition. You seem to expect that a universal moral standard lets everyone do whatever they want, with nothing they do would make them immoral. You need to fix your misunderstanding.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

2.  According to you one of these immoral segments of people are parents that would sacrifice their lives to save their children.  I have to say that doesn't seem like something I personally would call an immoral act.

AI researchers found that self reflection can improve performance of AI agents significantly without introducing new training data. Perhaps you can use similar method to improve your understanding of what I wrote.

I mentioned in one of my video,  the first knowledge is the existence of a conscious entity, at the time when it's thinking about its own existence. Its existence in the past and future are hypotheses need further justifications.

Preservation of individual self is the most local goal. To make it more universal, it must be extended to include a larger extent.

There are some known reasons why someone stops pursuing their own individual existence. Some parents sacrifice their own lives to save their children. Some soldiers do it to save their comrades. To be a stable strategy, altruistic behaviors must result in the entities being saved are more likely to survive in the future than the ones making the self sacrifice. Otherwise, it won't be stable, like a healthy adult sacrificing himself to save his old parent who's having terminal illnesses.

Self sacrifice to free up resources to be used by the larger society can be a stable strategy. Although it would be better if they can improve themselves to be more useful for their society and bring a net positive impact.

Which part of my statements reflects your understanding of them?
Altruistic behavior will be a stable strategy if what it saves increase the chance of extending the existence of consciousness. Saving children is necessary in most cases, since losing all children would drive humans into extinction. Although the situation might change when technological progress allow us to reverse aging.

[Origin]

By definition, the purpose of morality is to distinguish between good and bad behaviors.

Agreed.

This is what you say is the universal goal:
every conscious being, regardless of their shape, form, size, and ingredients, is that they want to extend the existence of consciousness further into the future.

You further say:
Those who actively obstruct its achievement are called immoral, because they violate the universal moral standard.

You identify some examples of people who are not following the 'universal terminal goal' and are therefore immoral. such as; Some parents sacrifice their own lives to save their children. Some soldiers do it to save their comrades.

I disagree that these people are immoral.

[Origin]

Perhaps you can use similar method to improve your understanding of what I wrote.

The problem is not my understanding, it is your flawed logic, ignoring inconvenient facts and arguing in bad faith.

[Origin]

This discussion is unnecessary anyway since by your own definition you have proven that your universal terminal goal is not truly universal (there are exception to the goal).

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

You identify some examples of people who are not following the 'universal terminal goal' and are therefore immoral. such as; Some parents sacrifice their own lives to save their children. Some soldiers do it to save their comrades.

I disagree that these people are immoral.

I said that it's a stable strategy, which makes it aligned with the universal terminal goal, which means it's morally good.
My example of immoral decision for not being a stable strategy is.

Otherwise, it won't be stable, like a healthy adult sacrificing himself to save his old parent who's having terminal illnesses.

I don't know how you can keep getting things reversed. But I won't assume malice if it can still be explained by ignorance.

[Eternal Student]

Hi.

Some life forms don't inhale CO2 to produce CH4. This alone is enough to reject your proposition.

    The proposition wasn't mine, it was credited to M. Russell at NASA.
The idea isn't suggesting all life forms absorb CO₂ or produce methane.   Indeed there must be some life that produce CO₂ and an entire ecosystem to support the net process that is hydrogenation of CO₂.

    It was only mentioned because, sometimes, it can be quite humbling to think that we aren't here for some other purpose such as to create art, understand the universe, carry out the will of some deity or to to "further the existance of some consciousness into the future".  Life, upto and including human beings, might just be a way to carry out a chemical process.

Best Wishes.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This discussion is unnecessary anyway since by your own definition you have proven that your universal terminal goal is not truly universal (there are exception to the goal).

Those who don't care about future conscious entities don't need to learn about the universal moral standard. Those who do need to learn about it so they can make plans to achieve it more effectively and efficiently.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Life, upto and including human beings, might just be a way to carry out a chemical process.

Based on the advance towards AGI, which brings us closer to singularity, some researchers started to think that most processes will be electronic instead of chemical.
We are here as a stepping stone which will make AGI possible. In retrospect, our fish ancestors were stepping stones which have made us possible.

[Origin]

Based on the advance towards AGI, which brings us closer to singularity, some researchers started to think that most processes will be electronic instead of chemical.
We are here as a stepping stone which will make AGI possible. In retrospect, our fish ancestors were stepping stones which have made us possible.

That's an interesting terminal goal, for life to create an AI and then life dies out.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Based on the advance towards AGI, which brings us closer to singularity, some researchers started to think that most processes will be electronic instead of chemical.
We are here as a stepping stone which will make AGI possible. In retrospect, our fish ancestors were stepping stones which have made us possible.

That's an interesting terminal goal, for life to create an AI and then life dies out.

Organic life, or life as we know it currently, is instrumental in making consciousness emerge from natural processes. In the distant future, it may not be necessary anymore, nor as important as it is now. But it may be still a good to have, considering the importance of diversity of conscious entities to prevent a common mode failure.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The proposition wasn't mine, it was credited to M. Russell at NASA.

Understanding of the universal terminal goal is better done through the first principles, or deductive reasoning which starts from the definition of goal itself. Analog thinking or inductive reasoning by generalizing common cases can also produce the same conclusion, as I've shown in one of my videos. But it needs to be done with adequate depth. Otherwise, it will give a wrong answer.

[Origin]

I said that it's a stable strategy, which makes it aligned with the universal terminal goal, which means it's morally good.
My example of immoral decision for not being a stable strategy is.

I don't know how you can keep getting things reversed. But I won't assume malice if it can still be explained by ignorance.

Bla, bla, bla.  So much wasted band width...

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I said that it's a stable strategy, which makes it aligned with the universal terminal goal, which means it's morally good.
My example of immoral decision for not being a stable strategy is.

I don't know how you can keep getting things reversed. But I won't assume malice if it can still be explained by ignorance.

Bla, bla, bla.  So much wasted band width...

Don't you have something meaningful to say?

[alancalverd]

In another thread I discussed the matter technically. The painful suffocation symptoms are likely caused by inability to properly exhale the CO2 built up from the blood. I predict it won't happen if the mask were equipped with two non-return valves to allow nitrogen inhalation and CO2 exhalation.

I haven't followed the case or bothered to watch the video, but what you say is true, and if they didn't do it properly, they have acted unconstitutionally in inflicting a "cruel and unusual punishment".
The autonomic system reacts to CO2 concentration by increasing respiration rate (metered CO2 "rebreathing"  is used in anesthesia and survival oxygen systems to ensure that the subject keeps breathing actively) and panic sets in if increased respiration does not  reduce CO2.
Nitrogen hypoxia with free exhalation is a recommended suicide technique because it actually induces a feeling of wellbeing. If the victim was unable to exhale excess CO2, the State of Alabama has committed a federal crime.

[paul cotter]

How could exhalation of co2 be stopped?, I don't see how it could. As you rightly point out anoxia is not unpleasant and is quite different from suffocation which can only be implemented by mechanically stopping the breathing. Certainly if I was due for capital punishment I would opt for nitrogen anoxia in preference to the electric chair or the firing squad.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

How could exhalation of co2 be stopped?, I don't see how it could. As you rightly point out anoxia is not unpleasant and is quite different from suffocation which can only be implemented by mechanically stopping the breathing. Certainly if I was due for capital punishment I would opt for nitrogen anoxia in preference to the electric chair or the firing squad.

The video at timestamp around 2:50 shows the illustration of the execution. It shows the usage of full face mask with Nitrogen intake on the right side of the face. Unfortunately it doesn't show what's on the left side.
One way valve usually produces some back pressure when operating. Some pressure needs to build up before the valve start to open and let the fluid to flow in forward direction, which is called cracking pressure. In reverse direction, the valve gets tighter when the pressure is applied in the other side, which prevents the fluid from flowing in reverse direction. The cracking pressure depends on the mechanism to close the valve when there is no forward pressure, like spring constant or its equivalent.
The situation described in the video can occur when the cracking pressure is too high for him to exhale the CO2 from his lung, which would make him re-inhale some of it. If I can make a suggestion, perhaps remove the exhale one way valve altogether, and just increase the nitrogen flow into the mask to exceed the inhale rate of the executed person.