[alancalverd]

Exhaust flap valves on simple "total loss" medical oxygen masks do not present a significant impediment. Clearly, the State of Alabama has some serious questions of competence to answer.

[paul cotter]

All that is needed is a loose mask with a high flow of nitrogen. I am not a proponent of capital punishment: sure, there are heinous crimes, for these "lock em up and throw away the key" is a suitable protection for society. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

All that is needed is a loose mask with a high flow of nitrogen. I am not a proponent of capital punishment: sure, there are heinous crimes, for these "lock em up and throw away the key" is a suitable protection for society. 

Shouldn't they be fed?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Moral Graphs: Interview with OpenAI Grant Winners! Meaning Alignment Institute: Aligning Humanity!

With enough data, and adequately deep structure, they will eventually align their value with the universal moral compass.

[alancalverd]

Shouldn't they be fed?

Why? Wouldn't it be more humane, more logical, and cheaper, to offer convicts a choice of selfadministered euthanasia at any point in their incarceration? Nitrogen hypoxia would be ideal: simple to use, nontoxic and readily available material....but the lack of ritual would make it unacceptable to politicians, who like a bit of theater.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

All that is needed is a loose mask with a high flow of nitrogen. I am not a proponent of capital punishment: sure, there are heinous crimes, for these "lock em up and throw away the key" is a suitable protection for society. 

Shouldn't they be fed?

Why? Wouldn't it be more humane, more logical, and cheaper, to offer convicts a choice of selfadministered euthanasia at any point in their incarceration? Nitrogen hypoxia would be ideal: simple to use, nontoxic and readily available material....but the lack of ritual would make it unacceptable to politicians, who like a bit of theater.

Don't you think locking people up without feeding them would make them starved to death?
Of course, they also need sanitary and stuffs to stay alive longer.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I actually can give you a goal that has no exceptions.  The terminal goal of all sentient entities is death.  Ta-da.

Do you think death is better/preferred than life?

Can non-conscious entities have a goal of their own?

How do you define goal and consciousness?

[alancalverd]

Do you think death is better/preferred than life?

At some point, everyone does. The moral problem is the number of religious parasites who want to deny you the option.

How do you define goal and consciousness?

I think we are waiting for your definitions!

[alancalverd]

Don't you think locking people up without feeding them would make them starved to death?
Of course, they also need sanitary and stuffs to stay alive longer.

The object of capital punishment is to terminate the life of a criminal. The world would be a happier place if all criminals were given the option of terminating their own lives. We only feed prisoners because it makes us feel good to do so (see my moral tests, somewhere above).

Interestingly, under UK law, if you are found to have been wrongly convicted, you have to pay the prison service for your accommodation up to the point of release. So it seems entirely reasonable that all prisoners should pay for their food.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So it seems entirely reasonable that all prisoners should pay for their food.

How can they pay if they can't have a job to get the money to pay?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The object of capital punishment is to terminate the life of a criminal. The world would be a happier place if all criminals were given the option of terminating their own lives.

If they refuse eating and drinking water, they will eventually die in less than a month. It's in their option already.

[alancalverd]

So it seems entirely reasonable that all prisoners should pay for their food.

How can they pay if they can't have a job to get the money to pay?

The same way that a person released from wrongful imprisonment is supposed to pay from the salary he wasn't earning in the last 10 years.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So it seems entirely reasonable that all prisoners should pay for their food.

How can they pay if they can't have a job to get the money to pay?

The same way that a person released from wrongful imprisonment is supposed to pay from the salary he wasn't earning in the last 10 years.

So, debt?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Everything Wrong With Democracy - Jason Brennan

- TIMESTAMPS

0:00 What is democracy?
2:56 Why would anybody want democracy?
13:15 Is voting a right of equal citizens?
20:00 Is voting required for protecting against tyranny?
25:57 People don?t vote for their values
31:03 How democracy may be immoral
37:41 What is the alternative to universal suffrage?

[alancalverd]

So, debt?

Some compensation is usually paid for wrongful imprisonment but I understand that the hotel bill arrives before the compensation and the net result is pretty close to financial ruin. How do you get a credit rating, for instance, if you haven't earned, borrowed or repaid  a debt for 10 years, during which you lost your job and pension or your business went bankrupt?

[alancalverd]

Democracy is whatever the current government (or its opposing revolutionary group) defines as democracy.

Once upon a time, people voted for a local representative to promote their interests to central government. Nowadays they are asked to choose between apologists for two or three manifestoes of meaningless slogans.

Can democracy result in an immoral government? That's how the Nazis and Hamas got control of the taxpayers' money, and Donald Trump-Putin will rule the world next year.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Democracy is whatever the current government (or its opposing revolutionary group) defines as democracy.

It has a distinctive definition in the dictionary

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

It relies on wisdom of the crowd and law of large numbers.

There are some proposed methods to improve the results, like this one.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hive-mind-new-approach-could-improve-on-crowd-wisdom/

[alancalverd]

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

It relies on wisdom of the crowd and law of large numbers.

So it depends on who is eligible to vote, who is an eligible candidate, and what anyone is allowed to vote on. And these are determined by the government itself.

The election of George W Bush, Joe Biden, and Donald Trump, rather questions your definition of "wisdom"

Where everyone is allowed to vote on a specific motion, we can get remarkably small majorities on very iumpolrtant decisions, as seen in the Brexit and Scottish Independence referenda, which suggests either that the "law of large numbers" is that people as a whole have no idea what they want, or that statistically, everyone is fairly satisfied with the status quo.

[alancalverd]

There are some proposed methods to improve the results, like this one.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hive-mind-new-approach-could-improve-on-crowd-wisdom/

Not the same thing at all!
The study was looking at how accurately a crowd can state or estimate a fact such as a state capital or beans in a jar.

Democracy is about how to make decisions on future legislation: there is no "correct answer" that can be known, any more than there is a correct answer to "tea or coffee?"

Interestingly, almost every Good Thing that has come out of a democratic government would probably have been rejected  on a popular vote: think about the abolition of slavery, votes for women, abolition of capital punishment, prison reform, compulsory seat belts......and the public skepticism of socialised medicine in the USA .

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So it depends on who is eligible to vote, who is an eligible candidate, and what anyone is allowed to vote on. And these are determined by the government itself.

The election of George W Bush, Joe Biden, and Donald Trump, rather questions your definition of "wisdom"

No. It questions the assumption made in setting up democratic systems.