[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The heat death of the universe doesn't meet your definition of a goal, but it is the universal and terminal outcome of which we can be certain.

Then we shouldn't be worry about it. It's certain within our currently accepted model of the universe, but it doesn't eliminate the chance that it could turn out to be wrong.

Nothing that meets your definiton of a goal can be universal.

It's universal within the boundary conditions based on the definition of goal. If you try to extend it outside of the definition of goal itself, you are inevitably making a contradiction. You'll be searching for a universal goal which is not a goal itself.

[alancalverd]

As living things have competitive goals, there can be no universal terminal goal.

As dead things cannot have goals, my statement stands.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

As living things have competitive goals, there can be no universal terminal goal.

As dead things cannot have goals, my statement stands.

How do you define dead?

[alancalverd]

Functionally equivalent to a rock, or your great-great-great grandfather.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Functionally equivalent to a rock, or your great-great-great grandfather.

Which of these are dead, according to your definition?
Virus
Fetus
Laptop
autonomous car
Optimus Teslabot
AI assistants
Curiosity Rover
Voyager
Brain in a vat
Apple seed
Apple tree

[alancalverd]

Good question! What's your answer?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Good question! What's your answer?

Since you've added requirement of living to define goal, you need to define living in the first place to communicate your idea.

Also, explain why non-living things cannot have a goal.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This chemical garden is thought to be related to the origin of life.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Religious fanatics who committed suicide bombing are well aware that they won't be living in biological sense to enjoy the results of their actions. But they believe that they will be somehow conscious after they die.

[alancalverd]

It would be unwise to base any argument on the supposed superstitions of others, particularly those groomed and motivated by perverts or politicians to kill innocent civilians. Let's stick to facts. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

It would be unwise to base any argument on the supposed superstitions of others, particularly those groomed and motivated by perverts or politicians to kill innocent civilians. Let's stick to facts. 

Some people don't think that civilians are not that innocent. By supporting their politicians, they are thought to be responsible for their policies. Problems arise when actions are done as broad brushstroke generalization. All members of a group of people are treated badly because some of them have done something bad. It creates chains of retaliations.

[alancalverd]

I repeat, it is unwise to draw any generally useful conclusion from the supposed beliefs of an idiot.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What we call immoral action can be classified into two main categories.
1. When the terminal goal is not aligned with ours.
2. When the terminal goal is aligned with ours, but the process, ie the instrumental goal isn't effective nor optimal.

The difference between them may seem subtle since many people never thought about their own terminal goal thoroughly.

[alancalverd]

My terminal goal is to die when and how I choose. Nothing else could possibly count as a terminal goal.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

My terminal goal is to die when and how I choose. Nothing else could possibly count as a terminal goal.

Have you determined when and how?
How will you determine them?
Will you base them on reason, intuition, or instinct?

[alancalverd]

Best estimate is my 84th birthday, by hypothermia (winter birthday) or nitrogen hypoxia.

I started many years ago with a guess as to when life would become intolerable. It's subject to continuous review but actually hasn't changed much, though this week's consultation with a cardiologist gives me cause to consider extending by a couple of years.

Not that the date matters anyway. My family and friends are fully aware of my intention so a day's notice will suffice to get someone to look after the dog when I've gone, and they can take their time selling the piano.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Best estimate is my 84th birthday, by hypothermia (winter birthday) or nitrogen hypoxia.

I started many years ago with a guess as to when life would become intolerable. It's subject to continuous review but actually hasn't changed much, though this week's consultation with a cardiologist gives me cause to consider extending by a couple of years.

Not that the date matters anyway. My family and friends are fully aware of my intention so a day's notice will suffice to get someone to look after the dog when I've gone, and they can take their time selling the piano.

Is there any reason for your choices above? How did they stand out against the alternatives?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What we call immoral action can be classified into two main categories.
1. When the terminal goal is not aligned with ours.
2. When the terminal goal is aligned with ours, but the process, ie the instrumental goal isn't effective nor optimal.

The difference between them may seem subtle since many people never thought about their own terminal goal thoroughly.

The first case can be viewed as having a negative consciousness. The more power given to them, the worst it will be for us.
The second case can be viewed as having a low consciousness. Making them better informed about how the universe work, can bring better results for us.

[alancalverd]

Is there any reason for your choices above? How did they stand out against the alternatives?

I've been close to unconsciousness from hypothermia, and experienced altitude hypoxia. Both painless states, and in the latter case very pleasant - you actually feel euphoric and in full control of the world until all the red lights come on and the plane starts making beeping noises.

Hypothermia is cheap in the UK - most British pensioners can afford it even if they can't afford to eat - and easily accessible.

I don't want to break a good airplane, so nitrogen hypoxia is preferable to altitude. It takes a bit of organisation but hopefully the next government will decriminalise assisted suicide. If not, I have a good precedent:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/8340808.stm is definitely worth reading, and a bit of research will reveal their calculations and methods - nothing beyond the wit of an average mechanic. 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

What we call immoral action can be classified into two main categories.
1. When the terminal goal is not aligned with ours.
2. When the terminal goal is aligned with ours, but the process, ie the instrumental goal isn't effective nor optimal.

The difference between them may seem subtle since many people never thought about their own terminal goal thoroughly.

The first case can be viewed as having a negative consciousness. The more power given to them, the worst it will be for us.
The second case can be viewed as having a low consciousness. Making them better informed about how the universe work, can bring better results for us.

From the perspective of universal moral standard, not many examples can be classified into first category. Only truely active nihilists match this category.
Human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, slavery, even genocides of other groups of people can be classified into second category.