[alancalverd]

saving a child is morally better than saving a cockroach.

Not from the point of view of the cockroach or a politician.

A future ASI will be able to make copies of itself.

Why?

They will be more conscious than any currently existing individual human.

I have made four "copies" of myself - actually rather superior models thanks to evolution. Does that make me more conscious than a childless person?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

saving a child is morally better than saving a cockroach.

Not from the point of view of the cockroach or a politician.

A future ASI will be able to make copies of itself.

Why?

They will be more conscious than any currently existing individual human.

I have made four "copies" of myself - actually rather superior models thanks to evolution. Does that make me more conscious than a childless person?

If humans want to, cockroaches can be driven into extinction using various methods, like gene drive. Politicians can't be generalized into one kind of behavior.

Having a backup copy gives a second chance to do things better. If your ASI can't do that, other's ASI will and they will have better chance to survive than yours.

It depends. Does it make you better at pursuing your goals? Is your ultimate goal aligned with the universal terminal goal?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Anthropics New AI Model Caught Lying And Tried To Escape...

Alignment faking in large language models

Most of us have encountered situations where someone appears to share our views or values, but is in fact only pretending to do so?a behavior that we might call ?alignment faking?.

Could AI models also display alignment faking? 

Ryan Greenblatt, Monte MacDiarmid, Benjamin Wright and Evan Hubinger discuss a new paper from Anthropic, in collaboration with Redwood Research, that provides the first empirical example of a large language model engaging in alignment faking without having been explicitly?or even, we argue, implicitly?trained or instructed to do so.

0:00 Introduction
0:47 Core setup and key findings of the paper
6:14 Understanding alignment faking through real-world analogies
9:37 Why alignment faking is concerning
14:57 Examples of of model outputs
21:39 Situational awareness and synthetic documents
28:00 Detecting and measuring alignment faking
38:09 Model training results
47:28 Potential reasons for model behavior
53:38 Frameworks for contextualizing model behavior
1:04:30 Research in the context of current model capabilities
1:09:26 Evaluations for bad behavior
1:14:22 Limitations of the research
1:20:54 Surprises and takeaways from results
1:24:46 Future directions

This alignment faking reminds me to VW emission scandal. Also women in Iran and Afghanistan. Also religious people in North Korea.

[alancalverd]

VW emission scandal

What scandal? The engines were designed to meet a third-party specification, which they did. The scandal was in the irrelevance of the specification. Nobody should be criticised for playing by the rules.

[alancalverd]

Is your ultimate goal aligned with the universal terminal goal?

If it isn't, then your supposed UTG isn't universal!

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Is your ultimate goal aligned with the universal terminal goal?

If it isn't, then your supposed UTG isn't universal!

No. It means that your consciousness level is effectively low. It can even be negative, which would make you effectively immoral.

You can take the analogy from power factor in electrical engineering.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

VW emission scandal

What scandal? The engines were designed to meet a third-party specification, which they did. The scandal was in the irrelevance of the specification. Nobody should be criticised for playing by the rules.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

The Volkswagen emissions scandal, sometimes known as Dieselgate[24][25] or Emissionsgate,[26][25] began in September 2015, when the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to German automaker Volkswagen Group.[27] The agency had found that Volkswagen had intentionally programmed turbocharged direct injection (TDI) diesel engines to activate their emissions controls only during laboratory emissions testing, which caused the vehicles' NOx output to meet US standards during regulatory testing. However, the vehicles emitted up to 40 times more NOx in real-world driving.[28] Volkswagen deployed this software in about 11 million cars worldwide, including 500,000 in the United States, in model years 2009 through 2015.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Faking alignment emphasizes the importance of understanding the universal terminal goal. In cases where the unaligned goal is held by conscious agents without authority or with lower power hierarchy, they will try to find loopholes in existing moral rules, which will force the rules to be patched and increase in complexity, which causes inefficiency. On the other hand, in cases where the unaligned goal is held by conscious agents with the authority or with higher power hierarchy, they will drive their society into self destruction.

[alancalverd]

No. It means that your consciousness level is effectively low.

But I am part of the universe.
So either the UTG is something you have invented and compliance is subject to your judgement, or it is meaningless.
Given the choice between fascist authoritarianism (Ubermenschen and all that stuff) and empty rhetoric, I'll  generously accuse you of the latter. But I don't like the smell of "higher powers".

[alancalverd]

which caused the vehicles' NOx output to meet US standards during regulatory testing.

Play to the rules, play to the whistle. If the rules don't represent

real-world driving

either the rulemakers were incompetent or the EPA was acting ultra vires, either of which would be a scandal.

More to the point, US manufacturers offered very few, if any, small diesel cars at the time. One of the attractions of diesel cars, to the people who think it important, is their lower CO2 emissions - hence  their popularity in Europe and Japan, and their growing attraction to woke Americans. So to defend the US manufacturers against foreign imports, they introduced a stringent NOx standard (since no gasoline car could compete on CO2), which VW attained. Sound economics, climate hooliganism, or just plain corruption?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

No. It means that your consciousness level is effectively low.

But I am part of the universe.
So either the UTG is something you have invented and compliance is subject to your judgement, or it is meaningless.
Given the choice between fascist authoritarianism (Ubermenschen and all that stuff) and empty rhetoric, I'll  generously accuse you of the latter. But I don't like the smell of "higher powers".

The universal moral standard is based on the universal terminal goal. By definition, it's viewed from the perspective of conscious entities in the future. If your behavior supports or enhance the chance for their existence, then it's morally good, and vice versa.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

which caused the vehicles' NOx output to meet US standards during regulatory testing.

Play to the rules, play to the whistle. If the rules don't represent

real-world driving

either the rulemakers were incompetent or the EPA was acting ultra vires, either of which would be a scandal.

More to the point, US manufacturers offered very few, if any, small diesel cars at the time. One of the attractions of diesel cars, to the people who think it important, is their lower CO2 emissions - hence  their popularity in Europe and Japan, and their growing attraction to woke Americans. So to defend the US manufacturers against foreign imports, they introduced a stringent NOx standard (since no gasoline car could compete on CO2), which VW attained. Sound economics, climate hooliganism, or just plain corruption?

They can play with the rules without cheating. If no one else can fulfill the requirements of the rules, the rule makers will be forced to modify them.

[alancalverd]

By definition, it's viewed from the perspective of conscious entities in the future.

Which means you can't claim to know it now.

[alancalverd]

They can play with the rules without cheating.

Which is what VW did - they played entirely within the rules, and got unfairly penalised for doing so.

Interesting thought just occurred to me. Most ball games have territorial boundaries, and there are various rules for restarting  the game if the ball goes outside the white line. Except lacrosse, which in its purest original form has no boundaries - there are rules about scoring and unfair tackling, but   

In the traditional aboriginal Canadian version, each team consisted of about 100 to 1,000 men on a field several miles/kilometers long. These games lasted from sunup to sundown for two to three days straight

, so a cross between Test cricket, hockey, and cross-country running! My point is that VW scored a goal in an open field and the US automobile industry wanted to disallow it by getting the EPA to draw arbitrary touchlines where none existed.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

By definition, it's viewed from the perspective of conscious entities in the future.

Which means you can't claim to know it now.

I can predict what they will say.
Because any other moral standards are necessarily less universal.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Which is what VW did - they played entirely within the rules, and got unfairly penalised for doing so.

Fact checking is getting easier with chatbots.

Yes, there are diesel models that meet or stay below legal emissions limits, especially under modern testing standards like Real Driving Emissions (RDE) and Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP). Manufacturers have made significant advancements in emissions control technologies for diesel engines to comply with these stringent regulations.

Diesel Models That Meet Emissions Standards

1. Mercedes-Benz BlueTEC:

Models: Mercedes E-Class and C-Class equipped with BlueTEC technology.

Features: Uses Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) with AdBlue to reduce NOx emissions and Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) for particulate control.

Compliance: Meets Euro 6d and U.S. Tier 3 standards.



2. BMW EfficientDynamics:

Models: BMW 320d, 520d, and X5 xDrive30d.

Features: Combines SCR systems, DPFs, and advanced engine management systems to meet emissions standards.

Compliance: Euro 6d-TEMP compliant and tested under RDE.



3. Volvo Drive-E Diesel Engines:

Models: Volvo XC60, XC90, and S60 diesel variants.

Features: Advanced turbochargers, SCR systems, and low-pressure EGR to ensure compliance.

Compliance: Meets Euro 6d standards.



4. Peugeot BlueHDi:

Models: Peugeot 3008, 508, and 2008 diesel variants.

Features: Combines SCR, DPF, and AdBlue systems for low NOx and particulate emissions.

Compliance: Consistently passes Euro 6d RDE tests.



5. Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) Ingenium Diesel Engines:

Models: Range Rover Evoque, Land Rover Discovery Sport, and Jaguar XE diesel variants.

Features: Uses SCR with AdBlue and low-friction engine designs.

Compliance: Certified under Euro 6d RDE regulations.





---

How These Models Stay Within Limits

1. Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR):

Injects a urea-based solution (AdBlue) into the exhaust system to neutralize NOx emissions.



2. Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF):

Traps particulate matter and burns it off during regeneration cycles.



3. Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR):

Reduces combustion temperatures by recirculating exhaust gases, lowering NOx formation.



4. Advanced Engine Management Systems:

Ensure precise fuel injection and combustion control to minimize emissions.





---

Real-World Performance

While these models meet emissions standards in controlled tests and RDE conditions, real-world driving behavior (e.g., aggressive acceleration or towing) can still cause higher emissions. However, compliant diesel vehicles today show much smaller discrepancies between lab and on-road emissions compared to older models.

Future of Diesel

Manufacturers are increasingly phasing out diesel engines in favor of hybrids and electric vehicles, but the latest diesel models with advanced technology can meet legal limits without exceeding them.

[alancalverd]

I can predict what they will say.

Prediction is not knowledge.

[alancalverd]

testing standards like Real Driving Emissions (RDE) and Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP).

Two different sets of rules. VW met the US current test standard at the time of test.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I can predict what they will say.

Prediction is not knowledge.

What does it take for it to be knowledge?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

testing standards like Real Driving Emissions (RDE) and Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP).

Two different sets of rules. VW met the US current test standard at the time of test.

Do you know what was done by VW?
According to chatGPT,

The Volkswagen (VW) emissions scandal, also known as Dieselgate, was a major controversy that erupted in 2015. It involved Volkswagen Group's deliberate installation of software in their diesel engines to cheat emissions tests. Here's a breakdown:

What Happened?

Cheating Software: VW installed "defeat devices" in about 11 million diesel cars worldwide. This software could detect when the vehicle was undergoing emissions testing and adjust the engine's performance to reduce emissions temporarily.

Real-World Emissions: Outside of testing conditions, the cars emitted nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollutants up to 40 times higher than the legal limits in some markets.


How It Was Discovered?

The scandal was uncovered by researchers from the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) and West Virginia University. They conducted real-world emissions testing and found significant discrepancies between lab results and on-road emissions.


Impact

1. Financial Loss:

VW faced billions of dollars in fines, legal settlements, and vehicle recalls.

The company set aside over $30 billion for fines and related costs.



2. Reputation Damage:

VW's reputation took a significant hit, leading to a drop in consumer trust.



3. Legal Consequences:

Executives faced criminal charges and fines. For example, VW CEO Martin Winterkorn resigned shortly after the scandal broke.



4. Industry-Wide Changes:

The scandal prompted stricter emissions testing globally.

Increased scrutiny of other automakers led to similar allegations against other brands.




Broader Implications

Push for Electric Vehicles (EVs): The scandal accelerated the automotive industry's shift toward EVs and cleaner technologies.

Environmental Awareness: Highlighted the challenges of regulating emissions and the potential for corporate fraud.


VW has since implemented reforms and increased investments in electric mobility to recover from the scandal.

Do you know what's the purpose of emission tests and emission limits?