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  4. Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
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Why should the free world tolerate socialism?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #20 on: 16/08/2019 18:44:44 »
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 18:19:44
Jesus Christ, the greatest revelator. Corrector of the law.
Nope.
The Gospel truth is that he's the man who said that the old laws are right and unchangeable.
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 18:19:44
Thus USA can now be confident that a nuclear attack would not reach their lands due to the black budget.

Nonsense.
It would be perfectly simple to put a nuke in a shipping container and deliver it to any sea port in the US. That means most of the population centres are wide open to attack.

You have swallowed the kool-aid that spending lots of money makes you safe. There's a point at which it makes you less safe because it stops you thinking that you need to cooperate with others (cooperating in a way that Christ would have wanted).
When you do that you start generating enemies.

What spending lots of money on defence really does is gives you a mechanism to channel  taxpayers' money to your rich friends.


Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 18:19:44
I am thinking of charities to Romanian orphanages, who did more than the far left wing government.
Do you realise that Romania didn't have a Left wing government, it had a dictatorship?
Do you not understand the difference?
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #21 on: 16/08/2019 19:48:54 »
Christ Jesus summed up the law in two commands, and the law under Paul the apostle was interpreted very differently compared to the Pharisees method. And today, people earn money, then, some only cattle, to sacrifice and tithe. Even King David followed the law by the Spirit, as in Ps 40 on sacrifice not needed, and open ear and the law in his heart... Jesus endorsed David a few times.

I think the CIA are doing their job, maybe with corruption in there though. Think of the power of the TR3B Astra. And secret weapons.

Romania was governed by communists sourced from the Soviet invasion. Communism was extreme socialism. Pure socialism.


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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #22 on: 17/08/2019 01:08:32 »
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 19:48:54
Romania was governed by communists sourced from the Soviet invasion.

Bollocks
It was run , as a fiefdom by Chauchescu.
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 19:48:54
Christ Jesus summed up the law in two commands,
OK, but if one of those didn't say "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." then it's clearly a lie (isn't it?)

Re " Christ Jesus summed up the law in two commands, and the law under Paul the apostle was interpreted very differently compared to the Pharisees method. And today, people earn money, then, some only cattle, to sacrifice and tithe. Even King David followed the law by the Spirit, as in Ps 40 on sacrifice not needed, and open ear and the law in his heart... Jesus endorsed David a few times."
Do you realise that what you posted makes no sense?
And I ask that, knowing that it's about 1 in the morning, and that I'm... not sober. (What's your excuse?")
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #23 on: 17/08/2019 10:49:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/08/2019 01:08:32
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 19:48:54
Romania was governed by communists sourced from the Soviet invasion.

Bollocks
It was run , as a fiefdom by Chauchescu.
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 16/08/2019 19:48:54
Christ Jesus summed up the law in two commands,
OK, but if one of those didn't say "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." then it's clearly a lie (isn't it?)

Re " Christ Jesus summed up the law in two commands, and the law under Paul the apostle was interpreted very differently compared to the Pharisees method. And today, people earn money, then, some only cattle, to sacrifice and tithe. Even King David followed the law by the Spirit, as in Ps 40 on sacrifice not needed, and open ear and the law in his heart... Jesus endorsed David a few times."
Do you realise that what you posted makes no sense?
And I ask that, knowing that it's about 1 in the morning, and that I'm... not sober. (What's your excuse?")

The law is just, somewhat without showing mercy and grace. Jesus Christ came bringing mercy, grace and truth. When we know what is just, we can appreciate mercy and grace. So the law is obsolete yet has a purpose being fulfilled. Even in King David's times, being led by the Spirit of God who authored the Torah and Prophets works, was above the letter of the law. Jesus mentioned this when the Pharisees asked why his disciples worked on the sabbath, breaking the letter of the law.

The law's purpose is fulfilled as we see mercy and grace supercede it. Anger is equivalent to murder, lust to adultery. If one has any of this, one needs repent and receive grace. One needs come to be kind at heart. So the law leads us to need grace and that is the law's purpose being fulfilled.

With the wisdom of the apostles the law is obsolete and being built over with new structure. The Torah is only a foundation.

I am a night owl.
« Last Edit: 17/08/2019 11:06:48 by Europan Ocean »
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #24 on: 17/08/2019 11:59:16 »
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rep%C3%BAblica_Socialista_de_Rumania

Socialist Romania.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #25 on: 17/08/2019 12:08:00 »
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 17/08/2019 11:59:16
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rep%C3%BAblica_Socialista_de_Rumania

Socialist Romania.
East Germany called itself a "democratic republic".
It lied.
So did Romania.
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #26 on: 18/08/2019 15:00:55 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/08/2019 12:08:00
East Germany called itself a "democratic republic".
It lied.
So did Romania.
Romania then, was state run, not private or religious charity run. If it was not socialist, it means that too few in that system were interested in the state enterprise, and equality. I used to talk to the staff at a charity to Romanian orphans in 1993. I recall that they sat in their own urine, heads shaved, staring at the wall, rocking back and forwards in boredom...

Socialism doesn't produce the means to maintain it's social equality and welfare. Especially if atheism is enforced. Not enough money or interest. Social democracy is okay.
« Last Edit: 18/08/2019 15:04:25 by Europan Ocean »
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #27 on: 18/08/2019 15:17:03 »
I think Australia's Labour party under Hawke and Keating had a lot to offer. Medicare, Social Security, some low cost education, Court of Arbitration, workers rights and union benefits. Although the economy went into debt with money going to public services and works via loans. Still it was managed.

I recall Hawke held summits and helped stop nuclear proliferation.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #28 on: 18/08/2019 16:55:53 »
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 18/08/2019 15:00:55
I used to talk to the staff at a charity to Romanian orphans in 1993. I recall that they sat in their own urine, heads shaved, staring at the wall, rocking back and forwards in boredom...
And that's pretty much all the proof you need that it was not socialist.
"from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".
Are those kids needs being supplied?
Clearly not.

So why are you using an example of a dictatorship which obviously isn't communist or socialist in a discussion about socialism?
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 18/08/2019 15:17:03
I think Australia's Labour party under Hawke and Keating had a lot to offer. Medicare, Social Security, some low cost education, Court of Arbitration, workers rights and union benefits. Although the economy went into debt with money going to public services and works via loans.
So, you like socialism, you just don't like socialism.

Would it be better if you worked out what you were talking about?
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #29 on: 18/08/2019 19:18:26 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2019 16:55:53
And that's pretty much all the proof you need that it was not socialist.
"from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs".
Are those kids needs being supplied?
Clearly not.
What this means is that the system designed to be state run, and follow Marx's ideas, couldn't go ahead. It worked best in Hungary.
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Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #30 on: 18/08/2019 19:21:17 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2019 16:55:53
So, you like socialism, you just don't like socialism.
I do not like non democratic socialism. Or forced socialism. As I typed above, it doesn't work, to keep up the charity, kindness and altruism... it stops being social.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why should the free world tolerate socialism?
« Reply #31 on: 18/08/2019 19:38:50 »
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 18/08/2019 19:21:17
I do not like non democratic socialism
What non-democratic governmental systems do you like?
Or is your opinion nothing to do with socialism?
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