[Bill S]

  It is interesting that most of the computer programs I have worked on, work without any reference to time.

I know nothing about computer programming, and it’s too late to start on that now.  However, I’m intrigued by this statement.  What does “without any reference to time” mean?

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

Could it mean that the program completes its task without making any reference to time?

[guest4091]

  It is interesting that most of the computer programs I have worked on, work without any reference to time.

I know nothing about computer programming, and it’s too late to start on that now.  However, I’m intrigued by this statement.  What does “without any reference to time” mean?

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

Could it mean that the program completes its task without making any reference to time?

Yes.
Many statements in programming are conditional like 'if', 'if-then'.Eg. sorting a list for all people named "Smith". Manipulation of data, operations that are independent of time. The operating system requires a clock but primarily for internal sequencing of operations. If you need time measurements for your purpose, it's available. If your work is air traffic control, then you need 'time' in your computer system.

[mxplxxx (OP)]

It is interesting that most of the computer programs I have worked on, work without any reference to time.

[There are programs that do require 'time'. GPS, traffic control, security, utilities, astronomy, etc., depending on the purpose.]

The time in these situations is usually processed as "Timer" objects that send "happened" events to the main part of the program at predetermined intervals or via the program "polling" the system clock. It is built on top of the program, not like reality which, seemingly, has time built into the fabric of the universe.

If reality were to process time in a computer-like fashion it would possibly have a timestamp incorporated into photons which seem to be the "timer" events of reality. ... or maybe it does somehow via the "shift" mechanism.

[mxplxxx (OP)]

I know nothing about computer programming, and it’s too late to start on that now

Challenge yourself:) It is fun. You have a head start with maths which has a whole computer language devoted to it (Fortran).

[mxplxxx (OP)]

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

The time a computer takes to complete a task is very dependent on the speed of the computer's processor(s). This closely parallels an EM wave in Reality.

[Bill S]

You are in that group that interprets 'time' as a causal entity.

Absolutely not!  I don't see time as causal, in any way.  However, it does seem to be essential if anything is to change.  It must have time in which the change can take place.

Water does not cause boats, but it is somewhat important for their ability to function adequately.

[Bill S]

Many statements in programming are conditional like 'if', 'if-then'.Eg. sorting a list for all people named "Smith". Manipulation of data, operations that are independent of time. The operating system requires a clock but primarily for internal sequencing of operations. If you need time measurements for your purpose, it's available. If your work is air traffic control, then you need 'time' in your computer system. /quote]

I’m OK with that. I was just trying to be sure that mxplxxx was not identifying a situation in which a computer could perform a function in zero time.

[Bill S]

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

The time a computer takes to complete a task is very dependent on the speed of the computer's processor(s). This closely parallels an EM wave in Reality.

Does this mean that my suspicion is correct?

[mxplxxx (OP)]

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

The time a computer takes to complete a task is very dependent on the speed of the computer's processor(s). This closely parallels an EM wave in Reality.

Does this mean that my suspicion is correct?

It means the computer program can function without any reference to time. In computer programs, if time needs to be referenced, it is done via a special time-based object. A computer program will always take time to complete.

[Bill S]

A computer program will always take time to complete.

We got there, thanks.

[jeffreyH]

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

The time a computer takes to complete a task is very dependent on the speed of the computer's processor(s). This closely parallels an EM wave in Reality.

How? Please elaborate on the parallels between an electromagnetic wave and the operation of a processor.

[mxplxxx (OP)]

I suspect it cannot mean that you and/or the computer, and/or the relevant program complete any “work” in zero time.

The time a computer takes to complete a task is very dependent on the speed of the computer's processor(s). This closely parallels an EM wave in Reality.

How? Please elaborate on the parallels between an electromagnetic wave and the operation of a processor.

See https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/g/ghz.htm. Both are used for processing information.

[alancalverd]

No. An EM wave is information

[mxplxxx (OP)]

No. An EM wave is information

I would say an EM wave is energy that can be used to transmit information. http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/communications/1-how-is-data-put-on-radio-waves.html

[mxplxxx (OP)]

the connection between the increase in entropy and indeterminacy

It would help if you gave me a lesson. Homework is all about reinforcing lessons given during class:).

On my travels I discovered an intriguing possible relationship between entropy and quantum entanglement which seems to have great relevance for the current topic.

https://www.wired.com/2014/04/quantum-theory-flow-time/

"The backdrop for the steady growth of entanglement throughout the universe is, of course, time itself. The physicists stress that despite great advances in understanding how changes in time occur, they have made no progress in uncovering the nature of time itself or why it seems different (both perceptually and in the equations of quantum mechanics) than the three dimensions of space. Popescu calls this “one of the greatest unknowns in physics.”

[mxplxxx (OP)]

You appear to be attributing a personality to an atom.

I happen to believe that all objects in the universe that have a black hole as their center (which I suspect includes basic particles) also have awareness. I thank all stuff that goes into my rubbish bin each night:).

[mxplxxx (OP)]

[You are referring to the '4D block universe', where all events exist simultaneously, and each observer experiences their own 'now' as they journey through space. Paul Davies is one advocate for this theory. One critical fact when considering this idea. There is one occurrence for each event, but many perceptions of that event.]

I did provide a reference for this https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/a-controversial-theory-claims-present-past-and-future-exist-at-the-same-time

[mxplxxx (OP)]

From Phys.org. Physicists reverse time using quantum computer. https://phys.org/news/2019-03-physicists-reverse-quantum.html

[Bill S]

  "The backdrop for the steady growth of entanglement throughout the universe is, of course, time itself. The physicists stress that despite great advances in understanding how changes in time occur, they have made no progress in uncovering the nature of time itself or why it seems different (both perceptually and in the equations of quantum mechanics) than the three dimensions of space. Popescu calls this “one of the greatest unknowns in physics.”

Could they be looking for something that isn’t there?

A metre measures the distance between two objects. Without objects; what is a metre?
Time measures the interval between two events. Without events; what is time?

In a non-technical way, this brings us back towards the OP.  Was time created with the Universe, or was it necessary to permit the “creation” to take place?  Logically, I would say that neither of these possibilities could provide the complete answer, but that’s not for this thread.

[jeffreyH]

  "The backdrop for the steady growth of entanglement throughout the universe is, of course, time itself. The physicists stress that despite great advances in understanding how changes in time occur, they have made no progress in uncovering the nature of time itself or why it seems different (both perceptually and in the equations of quantum mechanics) than the three dimensions of space. Popescu calls this “one of the greatest unknowns in physics.”

Could they be looking for something that isn’t there?

A metre measures the distance between two objects. Without objects; what is a metre?
Time measures the interval between two events. Without events; what is time?

In a non-technical way, this brings us back towards the OP.  Was time created with the Universe, or was it necessary to permit the “creation” to take place?  Logically, I would say that neither of these possibilities could provide the complete answer, but that’s not for this thread.

Actually that is EXACTLY for this thread.