[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

If matter waves can pass a slit smaller than the object they represent ..they are not physical they are waves of variables/information (same goes for tunneling). The uncertainty principle is uncertain(fuzzy) because the objects has only been granted partial spacetime. Observation/Spacetime is what makes matter waves swap to physical objects. QM waves don't have time or 3D. If QM waves are information the divide is how much information an object contains.

If it's accepted that Dark Energy was here before the big bang ..then so did waves.

[Bored chemist]

If it's accepted that Dark Energy was here before the big bang

It isn't.

f matter waves can pass a slit smaller than the object they represent

I'm not aware of anyone saying they can.

The uncertainty principle is uncertain(fuzzy) because the objects has only been granted partial spacetime.

That just doesn't make any sense.

QM waves don't have time or 3D

You can transform a wave function to give a real property of the object it represents- the best  known transform is that multiplication of psi by its complex conjugate gives a probability distribution.

Since those real properties- like probability distribution- are 3D objects, it figured that the wave is also 3D.

The problem here is that you haven't a godforsaken clue what you are talking about.

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

waves hold the variables. Whatever, when Dark stuff comes up as waves, check back here.

[Bored chemist]

waves hold the variables. Whatever, when Dark stuff comes up as waves, check back here.

OK, should we close the thread until then?

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

Are you claiming tunneling doesn't happen?

Dark Matter will be my undeniable proof that QM waves are invisible, not physical. We have energy waves literally everywhere and we don't see them in wave format. Why would we be able to see matter waves? You act like you would get a 3D object if you could grab a matter wave without collapsing it. You're the one with an active imagination. That wave holds the information for the object, I don't get how you can call a ghost (dark matter) physical.

The information in the wave is surely the same information addressed in the Information Paradox.

[Bored chemist]

Are you claiming tunneling doesn't happen?

No.
I'm saying that, since tunnelling doesn't need "slits", it's irrelevant.

It would help if you actually read (and understood) what people have already said.

Atoms bouncing off each other collapses their waves.

That doesn't even parse.

There's something you need to understand.
It has already been pointed out, but you have missed it.
Imagine making a grating with a gap between the "wires" that's a little bit smaller than the molecules you are using.

Classically, no particles will get through it.

QM and the uncertainty principle means that a few will. They will quantum tunnel through.

Here's the bit you don't understand.
If you take the grating and hammer it until the wires are squashed flat and there are no gaps so it becomes a metal foil then repeat the experiment...

More atoms will get through the foil even though it no longer has gaps in it. (In some circumstances)

Do you understand that?
 The probability of tunneling is related to the thickness of the barrier.
Hammering it flat makes it thinner and so it's more likely that atoms will tunnel through.

Obviously, with the grating destroyed, there's no diffraction pattern.

And the (smaller number of) atoms that went through the grating before  you hammered it flat would also show no clear diffraction pattern because, at that level, the atoms are not going through the gaps.

It's the same , classically, with light
You know the equation
d sin θ =  λ
Where lambda is the wavelength and d is the spacing
you can rewrite that as

sin θ =  λ /d
Well, if you make d smaller than lambda then you are trying to find an angle where sin theta is more than 1, but that's impossible.

Diffraction doesn't work if the wavelength is bigger  than the grating's spacing.
And, returning to QM, a particle can't be "smaller" than the associated wavelength.

So, you can't sensibly calculate a diffraction pattern for the the experiment you have proposed.

So there's no way to say whether the particles would follow it or not.
And, as has been pointed out before, you also can't measure it because, in practice big  things don't go through small holes.

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

You are telling me something physical is able to go through a barrier.
Tell me why you think you can feel a ghost.

[Bored chemist]

You are telling me something physical is able to go through a barrier.

I'm not telling you that.
Reality is telling you that.
Tunnelling is real.
It's the mechanism for alpha decay and the way these things work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_tunneling_microscope
and a stack of other things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling


The observations tell you that "something physical is able to go through a barrier".
You don't have to listen, but, if reality does not agree with your viewpoint, it is not because reality has made a mistake.

[Bored chemist]

Tell me why you think you can feel a ghost.

That's just dross you made up.
Why do you do that?

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

I'm pointing out that you think matter waves are physical. Get real!

[Bored chemist]

you think matter waves are physical

I can't say whether I think they  are "physical" or not, because I'm still waiting for you to say what you think that means.

However, tunnelling is real.

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

Let's go with ..physical means you can touch it.
If tunneling is real, then waves are able to penetrate barriers

[Bored chemist]

If tunneling is real, then waves are able to penetrate barriers

Yes- that's the point. The wave function doesn't suddenly drop to zero at  the surface of a barrier, it penetrates slightly into it.
So it will still have a non-zero value on "the other side" of a sufficiently thin barrier.

It would really help if you went and learned some science.

[jeffreyH]

Hey Joe, where you goin' with that brick in your hand?

Da da da da daaaa

Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that brick in your hand?
Alright.
I'm goin down to shoot my old theory
You know I caught it messin' 'round with another theorist.
I'm goin' down to shoot my old theory
You know I caught it messin' 'round with another man.

Da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, da da, de da de da daaa

[jeffreyH]

Not forgetting the guitar solo.
https://onpracticingguitar.chrisbottaguitar.com/2015/05/jimi-hendrix-hey-joe-solo-analysis.html

[jeffreyH]

Now if Joe was here he would realise that vibrating strings cause waves. Sound waves. These are physical in the sense that they affect the air molecules. Propagating through this medium.

Not at all like matter waves.

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

My argument is that matter waves are not physical ..why would I care that they are not mechanical in the traditional sense? What was the point you were trying to make?

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

Turns out Entanglement display's non-physicality also. When two particles are entangled ..they remain that way while they are still waves ..the waves are connected to the particles no matter how far apart you separate them. You can even separate them between solid spacetime objects.

[pittsburghjoe (OP)]

If we could mod the variables of a matter wave, we would have absolute control of our reality.
We need to know how observation through spacetime converts qm waves to be physical.

[Bored chemist]

If we could mod the variables of a matter wave, we would have absolute control of our reality.

So, if we could change the way the universe works, we could change the way the universe works.

Gosh!

Nice video though.