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  4. How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
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How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?

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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #100 on: 20/06/2019 19:13:28 »
If matter waves can pass a slit smaller than the object they represent ..they are not physical they are waves of variables/information (same goes for tunneling). The uncertainty principle is uncertain(fuzzy) because the objects has only been granted partial spacetime. Observation/Spacetime is what makes matter waves swap to physical objects. QM waves don't have time or 3D. If QM waves are information the divide is how much information an object contains.

If it's accepted that Dark Energy was here before the big bang ..then so did waves.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #101 on: 20/06/2019 19:40:09 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 19:13:28
If it's accepted that Dark Energy was here before the big bang
It isn't.
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 19:13:28
f matter waves can pass a slit smaller than the object they represent
I'm not aware of anyone saying they can.
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 19:13:28
The uncertainty principle is uncertain(fuzzy) because the objects has only been granted partial spacetime.
That just doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 19:13:28
QM waves don't have time or 3D
You can transform a wave function to give a real property of the object it represents- the best  known transform is that multiplication of psi by its complex conjugate gives a probability distribution.

Since those real properties- like probability distribution- are 3D objects, it figured that the wave is also 3D.

The problem here is that you haven't a godforsaken clue what you are talking about.
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #102 on: 20/06/2019 19:52:14 »
waves hold the variables. Whatever, when Dark stuff comes up as waves, check back here.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #103 on: 20/06/2019 20:18:04 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 19:52:14
waves hold the variables. Whatever, when Dark stuff comes up as waves, check back here.
OK, should we close the thread until then?
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #104 on: 20/06/2019 22:47:15 »
Are you claiming tunneling doesn't happen?

Dark Matter will be my undeniable proof that QM waves are invisible, not physical. We have energy waves literally everywhere and we don't see them in wave format. Why would we be able to see matter waves? You act like you would get a 3D object if you could grab a matter wave without collapsing it. You're the one with an active imagination. That wave holds the information for the object, I don't get how you can call a ghost (dark matter) physical.

The information in the wave is surely the same information addressed in the Information Paradox.
« Last Edit: 20/06/2019 22:49:43 by pittsburghjoe »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #105 on: 21/06/2019 18:51:40 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 20/06/2019 22:47:15
Are you claiming tunneling doesn't happen?
No.
I'm saying that, since tunnelling doesn't need "slits", it's irrelevant.

It would help if you actually read (and understood) what people have already said.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/06/2019 19:12:31
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 17/06/2019 00:48:27
Atoms bouncing off each other collapses their waves.
That doesn't even parse.

There's something you need to understand.
It has already been pointed out, but you have missed it.
Imagine making a grating with a gap between the "wires" that's a little bit smaller than the molecules you are using.

Classically, no particles will get through it.

QM and the uncertainty principle means that a few will. They will quantum tunnel through.

Here's the bit you don't understand.
If you take the grating and hammer it until the wires are squashed flat and there are no gaps so it becomes a metal foil then repeat the experiment...

More atoms will get through the foil even though it no longer has gaps in it. (In some circumstances)

Do you understand that?
 The probability of tunneling is related to the thickness of the barrier.
Hammering it flat makes it thinner and so it's more likely that atoms will tunnel through.

Obviously, with the grating destroyed, there's no diffraction pattern.

And the (smaller number of) atoms that went through the grating before  you hammered it flat would also show no clear diffraction pattern because, at that level, the atoms are not going through the gaps.

It's the same , classically, with light
You know the equation
d sin θ =  λ
Where lambda is the wavelength and d is the spacing
you can rewrite that as

sin θ =  λ /d
Well, if you make d smaller than lambda then you are trying to find an angle where sin theta is more than 1, but that's impossible.

Diffraction doesn't work if the wavelength is bigger  than the grating's spacing.
And, returning to QM, a particle can't be "smaller" than the associated wavelength.

So, you can't sensibly calculate a diffraction pattern for the the experiment you have proposed.

So there's no way to say whether the particles would follow it or not.
And, as has been pointed out before, you also can't measure it because, in practice big  things don't go through small holes.


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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #106 on: 21/06/2019 19:18:42 »
You are telling me something physical is able to go through a barrier.
Tell me why you think you can feel a ghost.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #107 on: 22/06/2019 01:16:15 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 21/06/2019 19:18:42
You are telling me something physical is able to go through a barrier.
I'm not telling you that.
Reality is telling you that.
Tunnelling is real.
It's the mechanism for alpha decay and the way these things work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_tunneling_microscope
and a stack of other things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling


The observations tell you that "something physical is able to go through a barrier".
You don't have to listen, but, if reality does not agree with your viewpoint, it is not because reality has made a mistake.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #108 on: 22/06/2019 01:16:56 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 21/06/2019 19:18:42
Tell me why you think you can feel a ghost.
That's just dross you made up.
Why do you do that?
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #109 on: 22/06/2019 01:24:45 »
I'm pointing out that you think matter waves are physical. Get real!
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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #110 on: 22/06/2019 01:30:24 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 22/06/2019 01:24:45
you think matter waves are physical
I can't say whether I think they  are "physical" or not, because I'm still waiting for you to say what you think that means.

However, tunnelling is real.
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #111 on: 22/06/2019 01:32:54 »
Let's go with ..physical means you can touch it.
If tunneling is real, then waves are able to penetrate barriers
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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #112 on: 22/06/2019 11:55:51 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 22/06/2019 01:32:54
If tunneling is real, then waves are able to penetrate barriers
Yes- that's the point. The wave function doesn't suddenly drop to zero at  the surface of a barrier, it penetrates slightly into it.
So it will still have a non-zero value on "the other side" of a sufficiently thin barrier.

It would really help if you went and learned some science.
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #113 on: 22/06/2019 13:06:22 »
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that brick in your hand?

Da da da da daaaa

Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that brick in your hand?
Alright.
I'm goin down to shoot my old theory
You know I caught it messin' 'round with another theorist.
I'm goin' down to shoot my old theory
You know I caught it messin' 'round with another man.

Da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, da da, de da de da daaa
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #114 on: 22/06/2019 13:39:50 »
Not forgetting the guitar solo.
https://onpracticingguitar.chrisbottaguitar.com/2015/05/jimi-hendrix-hey-joe-solo-analysis.html
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #115 on: 23/06/2019 03:45:49 »
Now if Joe was here he would realise that vibrating strings cause waves. Sound waves. These are physical in the sense that they affect the air molecules. Propagating through this medium.

Not at all like matter waves.
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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #116 on: 29/06/2019 20:12:33 »
My argument is that matter waves are not physical ..why would I care that they are not mechanical in the traditional sense? What was the point you were trying to make?
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #117 on: 29/06/2019 20:56:56 »
Turns out Entanglement display's non-physicality also. When two particles are entangled ..they remain that way while they are still waves ..the waves are connected to the particles no matter how far apart you separate them. You can even separate them between solid spacetime objects.
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Offline pittsburghjoe (OP)

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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #118 on: 29/06/2019 23:24:39 »
If we could mod the variables of a matter wave, we would have absolute control of our reality.
We need to know how observation through spacetime converts qm waves to be physical.

« Last Edit: 30/06/2019 01:17:29 by pittsburghjoe »
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Re: How will buckyballs fired at a double slit behave?
« Reply #119 on: 30/06/2019 09:28:42 »
Quote from: pittsburghjoe on 29/06/2019 23:24:39
If we could mod the variables of a matter wave, we would have absolute control of our reality.
So, if we could change the way the universe works, we could change the way the universe works.

Gosh!

Nice video though.
« Last Edit: 30/06/2019 10:09:12 by Bored chemist »
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