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  4. Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
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Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #160 on: 26/12/2022 11:45:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/09/2022 15:36:21
These are videos showing experiments on refraction of microwave using metamaterials.
All attempts to emulate refraction using metamaterial require pretty complex structure, which would be hard to express in simple equations. Simpler metamaterial structure such as two dimensional partial polarizers can not show the effect of refraction, but it can show the change of direction which is different than a simple reflection. Hopefully, by understanding the diffraction effect better, we can improve our understanding about refraction as well.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #161 on: 12/01/2023 15:31:51 »
Dear Hamdani,

I am late to see your original post.

To be honest, I think contemporary physics cannot yet explain the actual physical mechanism that gives the property of light refraction - the change in direction as found in Snell's law. It cannot be properly explained because we still almost have no real understanding of what light is; there may be claims otherwise by some people, but I don't buy them.

I personally is very interested in the answer. I will go through the earlier posts to see what have been written.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #162 on: 12/01/2023 15:42:11 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2022 13:29:21
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/08/2022 11:37:32
More or less the one given in that video- in which the guy cites Feynman's books on the subject.
Those books are older than I am.
Most physics textbooks explain refraction using Snell's law which is derived from Fermat's principle. Feynman's explanation is more similar to derivation using Huygen's principle. They leave the part of how the media change phase velocity of light unexplained.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell%27s_law
Textbooks cannot yet explain the physical cause of refraction, why light speed slows down in optical medium causing the change in light direction.

It's easier to do string theory then to explain the physical cause of the laws governing the refraction of light.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #163 on: 12/01/2023 17:47:02 »
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 15:42:11
Textbooks cannot yet explain
Well... they can't explain it to you.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #164 on: 12/01/2023 18:15:26 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/01/2023 17:47:02
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 15:42:11
Textbooks cannot yet explain
Well... they can't explain it to you.
Sure! The texbook could explain special relativity to me.  Time dilation, etc., but the explanation still mean nothing to me.  It does not matter to me if the whole world accepts special relativity. I don't.  Don't ask why!
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Online alancalverd

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #165 on: 12/01/2023 18:35:28 »
Then we won't.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #166 on: 12/01/2023 18:48:39 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/01/2023 18:35:28
Then we won't.
You can't blame me. Bored chemist was dismissive - sarcastic.

I come here to ask questions which I don't understand. In science we are free to hold differring opinions, even views completely at odd with what all the universities hold dear. The ONLY criterion is we are completely honest to our self - and this is verry, very difficult.   
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #167 on: 12/01/2023 19:08:37 »
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 18:48:39
In science we are free to hold differring opinions, even views completely at odd with what all the universities hold dear. The ONLY criterion is we are completely honest to our self - and this is verry, very difficult.   
No.
The important criterion is that the opinions are consistent with the evidence.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #168 on: 12/01/2023 19:34:09 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/01/2023 19:08:37
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 18:48:39
In science we are free to hold differring opinions, even views completely at odd with what all the universities hold dear. The ONLY criterion is we are completely honest to our self - and this is verry, very difficult.   
No.
The important criterion is that the opinions are consistent with the evidence.
No! People who don't believe in the Almighty God cannot be honest! They will always argue without knowing when to stop. Even when you give them evidence the size of an elephant, a dishonest person will still insist he sees no elephant.

So honesty is the foremost criterion. It is for this reason that Newton's Principia can stand the test of time for more than 300 years without equal.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #169 on: 12/01/2023 19:39:10 »
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 19:34:09
People who don't believe in the Almighty God cannot be honest!
The God portrayed in the Bible is inconsistent with our observations.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #170 on: 12/01/2023 20:13:45 »
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 19:34:09
It is for this reason that Newton's Principia can stand the test of time for more than 300 years without equal.
Except for general relativity which is better than equal because it fits better with observation.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #171 on: 13/01/2023 05:35:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/01/2023 19:39:10
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 19:34:09
People who don't believe in the Almighty God cannot be honest!
The God portrayed in the Bible is inconsistent with our observations.
If only your are humble and honest, else you will observe nothing.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #172 on: 13/01/2023 05:36:44 »
Quote from: Origin on 12/01/2023 20:13:45
Quote from: theThinker on 12/01/2023 19:34:09
It is for this reason that Newton's Principia can stand the test of time for more than 300 years without equal.
Except for general relativity which is better than equal because it fits better with observation.
If there is a poll, I'll vote otherwise.

Much of physics is a matter of opinion - just like voting for the US president.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #173 on: 13/01/2023 08:42:51 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 05:36:44
Much of physics is a matter of opinion
Not really, no.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #174 on: 13/01/2023 11:59:23 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 05:36:44
Much of physics is a matter of opinion
But not every opinion is the same. Some can get you a job, or college entrance. Some can get you killed.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #175 on: 13/01/2023 14:27:59 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 05:36:44
If there is a poll, I'll vote otherwise.
It's not a poll it is a statement of fact
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #176 on: 13/01/2023 14:58:43 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 05:36:44
Quote from: Origin on 12/01/2023 20:13:45
Except for general relativity which is better than equal because it fits better with observation.
If there is a poll, I'll vote otherwise.

Much of physics is a matter of opinion - just like voting for the US president.
I think your prejudice is showing.
Measurements are not opinions just because you don’t like the results.
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Offline theThinker

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #177 on: 13/01/2023 16:29:05 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 13/01/2023 14:58:43
Quote from: theThinker link=topic=77687.msg697301#msg697301 date=1673588204


[quote author=Origin link=topic=77687.msg697290#msg697290 date=1673554425
Except for general relativity which is better than equal because it fits better with observation.
If there is a poll, I'll vote otherwise.

Much of physics is a matter of opinion - just like voting for the US president.
I think your prejudice is showing.
Measurements are not opinions just because you don’t like the results.
[/quote]
No. It is all a matter of opinion and faith and belief in the experimenters.

Take the discovery of the Higgs boson. Yes! They claimed they found it through experiments - meaning they have done measurements and detected the Higgs. But then many people "vote" against their "measurements" and dismiss the work of particle physics. They hold the "opinion" that the "mesaurements" cannot be trusted.
 

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #178 on: 13/01/2023 16:55:35 »
Fortunately, science does not depend on consensus. 100 Nazi professors signed a letter criticising Einstein's Jewish theory of relativity. A journalist asked for his reaction: "Had I been wrong, one student would have been enough."

Whether you like the result or not is irrelevant. The most important part of an experimental science paper is the description of the method, which must be sufficiently explicit to allow a skilled technician to build the equipment and replicate the measurement.  If you want to prove that the emperor has no clothes, just publish a photo of his willy.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #179 on: 13/01/2023 18:29:30 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 16:29:05
But then many people "vote" against their "measurements" and dismiss the work of particle physics.
You can't "vote against" a measurement. That's silly.
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