[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

MODERATOR WARNING:
THIS POST AND OTHERS BY THE SAME POSTER APPEAR TO BE EDUCATIONAL IN NATURE, HOWEVER THEY CONTAIN SERIOUS ERRORS AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AS SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES.

The title of this topic is: Is electric current induced in a wire when it is moving perpendicularly to the magnetic lines of force or when it is moving in line with them?, but since the number of characters in the space for the title is limited, I had to shorten it.
I post this topic because I need it for the discussion in the topic "Is Faraday's law of induction true?"
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=78334.0

One of the consequences derived from the Faraday’s law of induction is the following: when a metal wire is moving in a magnetic field, then the component of the wire’s velocity which is perpendicular to the magnetic lines of force should be the cause for the induced current in it. Since the Faraday’s law of induction is not true (as I assert in the topic mentioned above), this consequence is also untrue. The actual cause for the current in the wire is the component of its velocity which is in line with the magnetic lines of force.
Consider this well-known and most effective experiment: we move a magnet in and out of a solenoid. Instead of moving the magnet, we can do the opposite – move the solenoid, so to say, in and out of the magnet.
In this second case I ask you: Is the wire of the solenoid moving perpendicular to the magnetic lines of force, or is it moving in line with them?
It is obvious that the wire of the solenoid is moving in line with the magnetic lines of force. And, as I said, this is the most effective way of inducing electric current in a wire.
Please watch now this YouTube video, where seemingly it is demonstrated that current is induced in the wire when it is moving perpendicularly to the magnetic field.

The magnet used in the video has approximately the shape as in figure (a) below:
horse shoe magnets1.jpg (19.41 kB . 570x530 - viewed 12462 times)

Why is some weak current induced in the moving wire? It is not because of its motion through the magnetic field marked with the four horizontal arrows, but because of the ‘components’ of the magnetic field marked with vertical red and blue arrow.
Please look at the figure (b). Parts of the first magnet are cut off and now the magnetic field has a different form with more upright ‘components’. If the wire is moving through this field with the same velocity as before, then the induced current in it will be greater.

Let’s look now at this drawing:

two separate magnets.png (1.76 kB . 370x126 - viewed 20528 times)

In this drawing there are two separate identical magnets, placed so that the magnetic field between them is the same as in the figure(a) above. When the wire is moving down through this magnetic field, then it should happen the same as in the case of figure(a). But no, in this wire no current will be induced because this magnetic field has no vertical ‘component’.

Please read also this: "What type of current is induced in a wire loop which rotates in a magnetic field?"
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=78515.0

[Origin]

I post this topic because I need it for the discussion in the topic "Is Faraday's law of induction true?"

This was settled almost 200 years ago.  You're tilting at windmills.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

I post this topic because I need it for the discussion in the topic "Is Faraday's law of induction true?"

This was settled almost 200 years ago.  You're tilting at windmills.

We will see.

[hamdani yusuf]

Let’s look now at this drawing:

 two separate magnets.png (1.76 kB . 370x126 - viewed 1251 times)

In this drawing there are two separate identical magnets, placed so that the magnetic field between them is the same as in the figure(a) above. When the wire is moving down through this magnetic field, then it should happen the same as in the case of figure(a). But no, in this wire no current will be induced because this magnetic field has no vertical ‘component’.

Have you tried this yourself?

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

Let’s look now at this drawing:

 two separate magnets.png (1.76 kB . 370x126 - viewed 1251 times)

In this drawing there are two separate identical magnets, placed so that the magnetic field between them is the same as in the figure(a) above. When the wire is moving down through this magnetic field, then it should happen the same as in the case of figure(a). But no, in this wire no current will be induced because this magnetic field has no vertical ‘component’.

Have you tried this yourself?

No, I haven't.

[Origin]

We will see.

We already know.  I am afraid you will never know, unless you open your mind to the possibility that your guess is wrong.

[hamdani yusuf]

Let’s look now at this drawing:

 two separate magnets.png (1.76 kB . 370x126 - viewed 2629 times)

In this drawing there are two separate identical magnets, placed so that the magnetic field between them is the same as in the figure(a) above. When the wire is moving down through this magnetic field, then it should happen the same as in the case of figure(a). But no, in this wire no current will be induced because this magnetic field has no vertical ‘component’.

What do you think would happen if one of those magnets is removed? Will electric current be induced in the wire?

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

What do you think would happen if one of those magnets is removed? Will electric current be induced in the wire?

I think there would be only a slight difference compared to the case with two magnets.
Please look at figure below:

one magnet.png (1.36 kB . 206x92 - viewed 12408 times)

The upper and the lower arrow are slightly curved because of the small vertical component at the edges. This component is further smaller if we place two magnets as much as possible close to each other:

two magnets_1.png (1.43 kB . 370x90 - viewed 12377 times)

If we let a straight conductor fall down perpendicularly through this field, then on the oscilloscope (the conductor is connected to it) I expect to see two little spikes:

two spikes.png (0.36 kB . 210x40 - viewed 12411 times)

The first spike should happen in the moment when the conductor is entering the field, the second spike when it is leaving the field. The difference between the two variants of the experiment (that is, with one and with two magnets) should be only in the magnitude of the spikes.
To make this experiment as much as possible ideally, one should take very broad magnets and let the conductor fall from point A to point B, that is, the movement is the whole time inside the field. Then no spikes, no current will be induced at all (figure below).

two magnets AB.png (2.74 kB . 400x200 - viewed 12502 times)

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

Let’s consider the following experiment.
A conductor is moving uniformly and obliquely through a magnetic field from point A to point C through point B (figure below).

conductor through field.png (2.57 kB . 160x330 - viewed 8280 times)

The induced current in the conductor flows away from us along the section AB. In the point B the current drops to zero. Then, in the section BC, begins a current flow in the contrary direction, that is, towards us. The graph will approximately look like this:

graph ABC.png (2.25 kB . 340x260 - viewed 8478 times)

I ask you now, how come the current changes its direction at the middle point and also changes its intensity along the way if the perpendicular component of its velocity (in this case it is the horizontal component) is the cause for the current induction?

[hamdani yusuf]

I have uploaded an experiment video on electric generation by moving magnets through a coil.

Let us know if the result agrees with your expectation.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

Let us know if the result agrees with your expectation.

Since you have already linked two videos in the other threads of mine which seemingly contradict my assertions, I assume that this video should also somehow contradict them.
In those videos I have seen what the contradiction is, but in this I cannot. Would you elaborate it, please?

Or maybe you have posted this video only to ask for my opinion, without saying that there is a contradiction to my assertions?

By the way, have you read the last post of mine in this thread? I would love to hear opinions from others - theoretical opinions.

[Bored chemist]

The induced current in the conductor flows away from us along the section AB. In the point B the current drops to zero. Then, in the section BC, begins a current flow in the contrary direction, that is, towards us. The graph will approximately look like this:

Says who?
That's certainly not what Faraday's law says.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

The induced current in the conductor flows away from us along the section AB. In the point B the current drops to zero. Then, in the section BC, begins a current flow in the contrary direction, that is, towards us. The graph will approximately look like this:

Says who?
That's certainly not what Faraday's law says.

I say, Mitko Gorgiev (by the way, it is my real name, I don't hide myself) and everyone can check it easily.

conductor towards magnet.png (39.6 kB . 460x410 - viewed 6442 times)

In the figure (a) a conductor is moving vertically towards the left edge of the magnet. A current is induced in the conductor which flows towards us. In the figure (b) the conductor is moving towards the right edge of the magnet. A current is induced in the conductor which flows away from us. In the figure (c) the conductor is moving exactly towards the middle of the magnet. No current is induced in this conductor.

What will happen if the conductor is moving obliquely from point A to point C?

conductor through field_1.png (2.08 kB . 160x220 - viewed 6427 times)

Please, show us now your intellectual abilities and solve this physics task.

[Bored chemist]

So, you are moving a wire through (ideally) a uniform field?
So, a bit like the Earth inductors I asked you about.
Well we have known what happens there for centuries.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

So, you are moving a wire through (ideally) a uniform field?
So, a bit like the Earth inductors I asked you about.
Well we have known what happens there for centuries.

WOW, what an answer!
You have showed your exceptional intellectual abilities once again!

[Bored chemist]

You were so busy calling me an intellectual that you forgot to answer my question.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

You were so busy calling me an intellectual that you forgot to answer my question.

You are so "an extraordinary intellectual", that you always avoid to admit the truth.
I have a word for such people, which I won't say it now.

[Bored chemist]

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question.

[Mitko Gorgiev (OP)]

Come on great physicists @Origin, @evan_au, @Hayseed, @jerrygg38: a few posts above there is a simple physics task to be solved. The Bored chemist has solved it, but he is ashamed to tell us the solution, because he loses as usual.

Let us know your solution, if you are capable of it at all.

[hamdani yusuf]

What do you think would happen if one of those magnets is removed? Will electric current be induced in the wire?

I think there would be only a slight difference compared to the case with two magnets.
Please look at figure below:


The upper and the lower arrow are slightly curved because of the small vertical component at the edges. This component is further smaller if we place two magnets as much as possible close to each other:


If we let a straight conductor fall down perpendicularly through this field, then on the oscilloscope (the conductor is connected to it) I expect to see two little spikes:


The first spike should happen in the moment when the conductor is entering the field, the second spike when it is leaving the field. The difference between the two variants of the experiment (that is, with one and with two magnets) should be only in the magnitude of the spikes.
To make this experiment as much as possible ideally, one should take very broad magnets and let the conductor fall from point A to point B, that is, the movement is the whole time inside the field. Then no spikes, no current will be induced at all (figure below).

I have tried to move a wire in front of a magnet, and I can see some current was generated in the wire by the reading of a milliammeter. The current must form a closed circuit to enable reading. A short conductor falling in a magnetic field may generate eddy current which in turn resist its movement, but it still requires a closed loop.
In my experiment, I can only find one bump of current reading when a neodymium magnet is moved pass the milliampmeter's wire which forms a closed circuit. This agrees with Faraday's law that the current is proportional to dB/dt.
With finite speed, there would be no vertical line on the oscilloscope.