[Bored chemist]

You, no one, including God, can force someone to love them.

So, not that omnipotent then.
Sounds like a design flaw to me.

[Bored chemist]

Hey, nice talking with you. We can agree to disagree.

Do you realise that it isn't me that you disagree with?
You are disagreeing with the evidence.

We can discuss lots of other things.

Wel... sort of.
But since I know that you don't agree with evidence, and this is a science web site, it's not clear that the discussions will be any good.

[alancalverd]

Most of us think that food and water sustain life. Apparently every species that ever existed, got this wrong. How clever of Hollywood to get it right. I've just watched a buzzard love a pigeon. 

[duffyd]

“In the privacy of my room, I begged for help. I had no notion who I thought I was talking to, I just knew that I had come to the end of my tether … and, getting down on my knees, I surrendered. Within a few days I realized that … I had found a place to turn to, a place I’d always known was there but never really wanted, or needed, to believe in. From that day until this, I have never failed to pray in the morning, on my knees, asking for help, and at night, to express gratitude for my life and, most of all, for my sobriety. I choose to kneel because I feel I need to humble myself when I pray, and with my ego, this is the most I can do. If you are asking why I do all this, I will tell you … because it works, as simple as that.”
I have finally found a place to live, just like I never could before
And I know I don’t have much to give, but soon I’ll open any door.
Everybody knows the secret, everybody knows the score.
I have finally found a place to live, in the presence of the Lord
Clapton

[duffyd]

They ask me how I feel

And if my love is real

And how I know I’ll make it through

And they, they look at me and frown

They’d like to drive me from this town

They don’t want me around

’Cause I believe in you



They show me to the door

They say don’t come back no more

’Cause I don’t be like they’d like me to

And I walk out on my own

A thousand miles from home

But I don’t feel alone

’Cause I believe in you



I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter

I believe in you even though we be apart

I believe in you even on the morning after

Oh, when the dawn is nearing

Oh, when the night is disappearing

Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart



Don’t let me drift too far

Keep me where you are

Where I will always be renewed

And that which you’ve given me today

Is worth more than I could pay

And no matter what they say

I believe in you



I believe in you when winter turn to summer

I believe in you when white turn to black

I believe in you even though I be outnumbered

Oh, though the earth may shake me

Oh, though my friends forsake me

Oh, even that couldn’t make me go back



Don’t let me change my heart

Keep me set apart

From all the plans they do pursue

And I, I don’t mind the pain

Don’t mind the driving rain

I know I will sustain

’Cause I believe in you

Dylan

[duffyd]

It is quite a strange, even bizarre phenomena that someone who never lived cultivates such love and devotion for Himself thousands of years after it was reported that he never was.

[duffyd]

It is quite a strange, even bizarre, phenomena that someone who never lived cultivates such love and devotion for Himself thousands of years after it was reported that he never was.

What we can say about him, who never was, with great certainty is that none of his contemporaries had a thing to say about him. Very odd.
For a perfect example of what no one said: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life."
Neither did anyone contribute this: "The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us."
Or this: "We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ."
Or this: We write these things so that our joy may be complete. And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.…
Or this: If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
Apparently, there were phonies back in the day who pretended to be His disciples, even though He never lived. They considered themselves all that, just like charlatans have ever since he never was. Seems that other misled souls called them out on it. In essence they told them they had no fellowship with God-Man if they were jerks using his name for their own benefit, kinda like today and throughout the entire 2,000 years since he began not existing. 

[duffyd]

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." Or so they who knew him, walked, talked, handled and ate with him, said with first hand knowledge about this figment of their imagination, or whose story they themselves were creating. (As disciples of his, even when no such person ever lived, they risked death, torture, and being ostracized from their communities. Their hometown gang was steeped in a religious tradition more than any other people group.)

[duffyd]

Let's not forget that Steve wouldn't shut his trap before the big boys and got rocked until he was no more. See, The high priest asked Stephen, “Are they telling the truth about you?”
2 Stephen answered:
Friends, listen to me. Our glorious God appeared to our ancestor Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he had moved to Haran. 3 God told him, “Leave your country and your relatives and go to a land that I will show you.” 4 Then Abraham left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran." So he goes into the history of these chosen people, ties their history into this one who wasn't and they went nuts and eliminated good old Steve because they had already killed the leader of this sect-though he wasn't in the first place. They didn't want to hear any more about nobody..
At that time the church in Jerusalem suffered terribly. All of the Lord’s followers, except the apostles, were scattered everywhere in Judea and Samaria. Saul started making a lot of trouble for the church. He went from house to house, arresting men and women and putting them in jail.
He merely played along all the while knowing this messiah guy wasn't real. He saw a business opportunity down the road if he played his cards right.

[jfoldbar (OP)]

is my "knowing" that individual

the thing with jesus, (or anything else in the bible) is you dont 'know' they exist, you 'believe' they exist. they are 2 different things

[jfoldbar (OP)]

Hey, nice talking with you. We can agree to disagree.
Do you realise that it isn't me that you disagree with?
You are disagreeing with the evidence.

ditto

[Petrochemicals]

Dear god is this still going ?

People ressurected by jesus - 0
Years of living in plague filled misery since jesus 1600
Separation of religion from law 400 years ago
People saved from malaria by jesus 0
People saved by science from malaria over 1 billion
Dont marry your sister !

[duffyd]

There's enough evidence to test him. More than enough credible proof that He is, to encourage anyone who is interested, sincerely interested, to pray, to ask him to reveal himself.
The strategy to try to force believers into coughing up all their evidence is old, worn out, ineffective and boring. Asked repeatedly for what is acceptable evidence, the best you ever offer are links. You think we don't see through that?
No discussion is entered into. You want to be in a position to dismiss out of hand whatever may be presented to you. It's not as though we don't recognize this as your repeated approach to avoid an honest exchange of ideas. Face it.
You haven't been persuasive. Real Christians are not fooled by this manipulation as you can clearly tell after decades of failure to move us. The sad part is that you pretend to be interested, genuinely, in these matters. In reality, your interest has nothing to do with learning about Christ and that is a pity. Your wish to confound Christians with a phony debate may give you a thrill, but Christians are not the ones losing. I get that you think so, but you are falling for your own ruse.
Dear God, do whatever is within your power to satisfy their deepest longings, their deepest needs.   

[duffyd]

is my "knowing" that individual

the thing with jesus, (or anything else in the bible) is you dont 'know' they exist, you 'believe' they exist. they are 2 different things

That is a perfectly legitimate conclusion for you. You don't need to make any further inquiries.

[duffyd]

Though he never was and no contemporary of his wrote a word about him, Rome was familiar with old SaulPaul before he got there. Not bad for the ancient world separated by thousands of miles.

[Petrochemicals]

There's enough evidence to test him. More than enough credible proof that He is, to encourage anyone who is interested, sincerely interested, to pray Him and to ask him to reveal himself.
The strategy to try to force believers into coughing up all their evidence is old, worn out, ineffective and boring. Asked repeatedly for what is acceptable evidence, the best you ever offer are links. You think we don't see through that?
No discussion is entered into. You want to be in a position to dismiss out of hand whatever may be presented to you. It's not as though we don't recognize this as your repeated approach to avoid an honest exchange of ideas. Face it.
You haven't been persuasive. Real Christians are not fooled by this manipulation as you can clearly tell after decades of failure to move us. The sad part is that you pretend to be interested, genuinely, in these matters. In reality, your interest has nothing to do with learning about Christ and that is a pity. Your wish to confound Christians with a phony debate may give you a thrill, but Christians are not the ones losing. I get that you think so, but you are falling for your own ruse.
Dear God, do whatever is within your power to satisfy their deepest longings, their deepest needs.   

No

[jfoldbar (OP)]

That is a perfectly legitimate conclusion for you. You don't need to make any further inquiries.

true, i no longer enquire whether the bible is true or not. i accept the fact that its not. just like i accept that 1+1=2, regardless how i feel about it.
the thing that i still enquire about though is why others ignore the fact(s) and still choose the 'believe' option. do those people also choose the 'believe' option with 1+1?
what i mean is, for someone to believe the bible that means he is a basic ignorer of facts. does he also ignore other facts in his life? does he ignore the car speedo while driving, does he ignore the ingredients of a food, does he ignore his bank balance figure while shopping? this is the stuff that boggles my mind.

[duffyd]

“In the privacy of my room, I begged for help. I had no notion who I thought I was talking to, I just knew that I had come to the end of my tether … and, getting down on my knees, I surrendered. Within a few days I realized that … I had found a place to turn to, a place I’d always known was there but never really wanted, or needed, to believe in. From that day until this, I have never failed to pray in the morning, on my knees, asking for help, and at night, to express gratitude for my life and, most of all, for my sobriety. I choose to kneel because I feel I need to humble myself when I pray, and with my ego, this is the most I can do. If you are asking why I do all this, I will tell you … because it works, as simple as that.”
I have finally found a place to live, just like I never could before
And I know I don’t have much to give, but soon I’ll open any door.
Everybody knows the secret, everybody knows the score.
I have finally found a place to live, in the presence of the Lord
Clapton

Eric, where are your critics?

[duffyd]

They ask me how I feel

And if my love is real

And how I know I’ll make it through

And they, they look at me and frown

They’d like to drive me from this town

They don’t want me around

’Cause I believe in you



They show me to the door

They say don’t come back no more

’Cause I don’t be like they’d like me to

And I walk out on my own

A thousand miles from home

But I don’t feel alone

’Cause I believe in you



I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter

I believe in you even though we be apart

I believe in you even on the morning after

Oh, when the dawn is nearing

Oh, when the night is disappearing

Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart



Don’t let me drift too far

Keep me where you are

Where I will always be renewed

And that which you’ve given me today

Is worth more than I could pay

And no matter what they say

I believe in you



I believe in you when winter turn to summer

I believe in you when white turn to black

I believe in you even though I be outnumbered

Oh, though the earth may shake me

Oh, though my friends forsake me

Oh, even that couldn’t make me go back



Don’t let me change my heart

Keep me set apart

From all the plans they do pursue

And I, I don’t mind the pain

Don’t mind the driving rain

I know I will sustain

’Cause I believe in you

Dylan

Bob, Thanks for your willingness to express your feelings about Jesus. I know you took heat for it, but you set your face like a flint. Love you boy.

[duffyd]

If anyone would care to explain why God doesn't exist, I'd enjoy reviewing your theories and data.
Many are adamant that there is no evidence for his existence, but they aren't convincing. If you would like to share a viable theory, please don't hesitate.