[duffyd]

Science cannot deny the overwhelming value found in the testimonies of hundreds of millions of people when they declare that JESUS CHRIST became real to them personally and that HE Himself changed their lives.
No other figure in world history can attest to influencing people like this. No dead person has risen from the grave and convinced others of His resurrection as the Son of GOD. It hasn't happened. But, He rose from the dead and promises to all who would seek HIM, that HE will be found. No one has sought HIM with their whole being and not met HIM personally. 

[Bored chemist]

. She answered in Alan's place, as if she were Alan, as if her answer was Alan's. Would you remind her to respect others who participate here? Thanks 

Whom do you think you are talking about?

[duffyd]

It's the "interpretation" bit that invokes contempt. A famous objection to university courses in English literature was "so much bad English has been written about good English". Much the same with Christianity.

How much would you pay for a bowdlerised sketch of a third-hand copy of a painting by an unknown artist of an event that he did not witness? Not a lot, I suspect. So why write pages of nonsense about a wholly unjustified interpretation of an edited collection of quasi-historical and bizarrely mystical texts?

At face value the bible contains some interesting snippets of the history and poetry of the Jews up to about 2000 years ago, with possibly too much emphasis (much of it tediously repeated and over-embellished) about Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth. There's plenty more, some in the Dead Sea Scrolls and more recently in the Encyclopaedia Judaica. 

Little point in anyone else reading it as we don't accept converts easily, nor do we require a detailed knowledge of it - just a broad understanding of the underlying philosophy and acceptance of the rules of behavior. And don't kneel.   

Joseph Klausner wrote, “It is universally admitted … that Christ taught the purest and sublimest ethics." He wrote, "Jesus of Nazareth: His Life, Times & Teaching." Highly regarded.

[duffyd]

Jesus’ only credentials were himself. He never wrote a book, commanded an army, held a political office, or owned property. He mostly traveled within a hundred miles of his village, attracting crowds who were amazed at his provocative words and stunning deeds.

Yet Jesus’ greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. And while most great people eventually fade into history books, Jesus is still the focus of thousands of books and unparalleled media controversy. And much of that controversy revolves around the radical claims Jesus made about himself—claims that astounded both his followers and his adversaries.

It was primarily Jesus’ unique claims that caused him to be viewed as a threat by both the Roman authorities and the Jewish hierarchy. Although he was an outsider with no credentials or political power base, within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact—but nothing like that unknown carpenter’s son from Nazareth.

well written. it continues.
jesusonline

[Bored chemist]

Joseph Klausner wrote, “It is universally admitted … that Christ taught the purest and sublimest ethics."

Specifically, he said that we should carry on with the homophobia, slavery  etc.

So it's plainly  not true that it is "universally admitted".

Why tell that lie?

[alancalverd]

Joseph Klausner wrote, “It is universally admitted … that Christ taught the purest and sublimest ethics."

Not sure about "universal" - a lot of muslims would disagree, but it was pretty mainstream Judaism. None of that Christian rubbish about witch-burning and forgiveness.

[Bored chemist]

Christian rubbish about witch-burning

The killing witches bit is from Exodus 22:18.
And Exodus is usually  ascribed to Moses, rather than to Christ.

[alancalverd]

Exactly my point, or at least parallel to it. Christians ignore Christ's teaching (forgiveness), invent or ignore some selfcongratulatory drivel, then say they are doing it in Jesus' name.   

It has also been suggested that the word "witch" might be a mistranslation of "poisoner."

which makes more sense in terms of practical law.

[duffyd]

Joseph Klausner wrote, “It is universally admitted … that Christ taught the purest and sublimest ethics."

Not sure about "universal" - a lot of muslims would disagree, but it was pretty mainstream Judaism. None of that Christian rubbish about witch-burning and forgiveness.

Magic and divination were practised extensively in the ancient world, as indeed they are still among uncivilised peoples and among the uneducated even in civilised countries: we have particularly abundant information respecting the practice of them in Assyria (see briefly the writer’s Daniel, in the Camb. Bible, p. 13 ff., more fully Jastrow, Relig. of Bab. and Ass. (1898), pp. 352–406). As inconsistent with the spirit the religion of Jehovah, as fostering superstition, and as associated commonly with heathen beliefs, they are condemned repeatedly in the OT.: see Leviticus 19:31; Leviticus 20:6; Leviticus 20:27 (all H), and esp. Deuteronomy 18:10-11, locus classicus on the subject, where eight types are enumerated (see the writer’s note ad loc.); and often in the prophets. See further on the subject, with numerous illustrations of the methods of magic practised different parts of the world, O. C. Whitehouse’s articles Magic, Soothsayer, Sorcery, in DB. a sorceress] The fem. (only here) of the word rendered sorcerer in Deuteronomy 18:10, Malachi 3:5, 2 Chronicles 33:6, Daniel 2:2†: cf. Jeremiah 27:9; and sorceries in 2 Kings 9:22, Micah 5:11, Nahum 3:4, Isaiah 47:9; Isaiah 47:12†. Micah 5:11 seems to shew that the ‘sorceries’ were something material, such as drugs, herbs, &c., used superstitiously for the purpose of producing magical effects. Sorcery was resorted to for all kinds of purposes, to heal diseases, to ward off disasters, to bring misfortune upon a neighbour, to inspire a woman with love, &c.; it was often supposed to operate by the power obtained through incantations or other spells over spirits (the Arab. jinn).

The law is one which, as the reader need hardly be reminded, has often been woefully misapplied, and led to the committal of great cruelties: witches were often burnt in the middle ages; and they were executed in England as late as 1716. The right feeling that sorcery is debasing and superstitious finds expression in a law which is no doubt not out of harmony with the severe punishments common in the East, even to modern times,—and even, we may add, in mediaeval Europe: but the law belongs to the older dispensation, and does not breathe the spirit of Christ (Luke 9:55). The rise of a historical sense, and the recognition that the revelation contained in the OT. was progressive and that the laws given to Israel are not, simply as such, binding upon Christian nations, have taught men that an injunction such as this can have no place in a Christian law-book.

[duffyd]

Exactly my point, or at least parallel to it. Christians ignore Christ's teaching (forgiveness), invent or ignore some selfcongratulatory drivel, then say they are doing it in Jesus' name.   

It has also been suggested that the word "witch" might be a mistranslation of "poisoner."

which makes more sense in terms of practical law.

I've got a million bucks. all yours for the taking! Come and get it!

Money is filthy and disgusting. Look around a little and see what money did to people. It financed wars, created poison and chemicals for weapons, polluted our earth with gasoline purchases, drives the porn industry, the mafia, all the rotten churches and ministers who demanded donations, caused people to hate each other over who had more of it, bribed people to do all kinds of horrible things. No. You keep your filthy lucre. It's not going to ruin me.

But, it's just money. You don't have to make it ruin you.

You don't have any money. You have no evidence that you have 2 dimes.

Well, go to the bank. It is in an envelope with your name on it.

LOL. Sure it is. Your imaginary money is just gonna have to wait. I'm not falling for that crap.

But, go see. The bank is right where you are and all you have to do is ask for it.

LOL. Yea, I know FSM is just dying for me to ask for it. You fool. Go play with your skydaddy, I've got important things to do, like tell everyone that money sucks, cause
1. It doesn't exist
2. It destroys everybody who thinks he has it. They wear upside down funnels on their heads and abuse children with all their so-called cash.

Having money has nothing to do with that stuff

Sure! That's why everybody who pretends to have money is a filthy, dirty, rotten jerk who rips off everybody.

What about people who give to charity?

Don't lie to me. Show me the evidence where people give away money and don't demand favors in return. Go ahead. I dare you.

But, it's your money. You can help tons of people with it. Just go pick it up!

LOL. I tried that bank and they charged me a million bucks in overdraft fees and I got nothing! Who do you think you're messing with, right fellas?

[Bored chemist]

Exactly my point, or at least parallel to it. Christians ignore Christ's teaching (forgiveness), invent or ignore some selfcongratulatory drivel, then say they are doing it in Jesus' name.   

It has also been suggested that the word "witch" might be a mistranslation of "poisoner."

which makes more sense in terms of practical law.

I've got a million bucks. all yours for the taking! Come and get it!

Money is filthy and disgusting. Look around a little and see what money did to people. It financed wars, created poison and chemicals for weapons, polluted our earth with gasoline purchases, drives the porn industry, the mafia, all the rotten churches and ministers who demanded donations, caused people to hate each other over who had more of it, bribed people to do all kinds of horrible things. No. You keep your filthy lucre. It's not going to ruin me.

But, it's just money. You don't have to make it ruin you.

You don't have any money. You have no evidence that you have 2 dimes.

Well, go to the bank. It is in an envelope with your name on it.

LOL. Sure it is. Your imaginary money is just gonna have to wait. I'm not falling for that crap.

But, go see. The bank is right where you are and all you have to do is ask for it.

LOL. Yea, I know FSM is just dying for me to ask for it. You fool. Go play with your skydaddy, I've got important things to do, like tell everyone that money sucks, cause
1. It doesn't exist
2. It destroys everybody who thinks he has it. They wear upside down funnels on their heads and abuse children with all their so-called cash.

Having money has nothing to do with that stuff

Sure! That's why everybody who pretends to have money is a filthy, dirty, rotten jerk who rips off everybody.

What about people who give to charity?

Don't lie to me. Show me the evidence where people give away money and don't demand favors in return. Go ahead. I dare you.

But, it's your money. You can help tons of people with it. Just go pick it up!

LOL. I tried that bank and they charged me a million bucks in overdraft fees and I got nothing! Who do you think you're messing with, right fellas?

What topic did you think you posted that in?

[duffyd]

Science cannot deny the overwhelming value found in the testimonies of hundreds of millions of people when they declare that JESUS CHRIST became real to them personally and that HE Himself changed their lives.
No other figure in world history can attest to influencing people like this. No dead person has risen from the grave and convinced others of His resurrection as the Son of GOD. It hasn't happened. But, He rose from the dead and promises to all who would seek HIM, that HE will be found. No one has sought HIM with their whole being and not met HIM personally.

FROM ATHEISM TO CHRISTIAN AT YALE
Dad imprisoned when he was 9 years old and GOD didn't answer his prayer to return him home....

[duffyd]

It is so mind boggling. Jesus is the most loving, wonderful, kind, cool being and yet many view him as a dictatorial monster. He is just the opposite. Those who know HIM swear by HIS goodness. They are enraptured by HIS beauty and loving kindness. Some who reject HIM find HIM completely detestable.

Mira Sorvino – Academy Award-winning actress is a Christian today. Love her.

[duffyd]

Testimonies from Christians are powerful scientific forms of evidence for GOD's existence. Millions testify to the same kinds of personal, life transforming experiences which by definition have evidentiary value. The odds that so many people, from such diverse backgrounds, for over two thousand years, state unequivocally that HE HIMSELF, risen from the dead and alive in their hearts, are infinite and must be taken very seriously by anyone looking into the possibility that Christ was in fact WHO HE claimed to be.

[Bored chemist]

Testimonies from Christians are powerful scientific forms of evidence for GOD's existence.

Wrong on every major count.

Dad imprisoned when he was 9 years old and GOD didn't answer his prayer to return him home

And yet, the God of the Bible would have done so.

It's as if that God does not exist.

The odds that so many people, from such diverse backgrounds, for over two thousand years, state unequivocally that HE HIMSELF, risen from the dead and live in their hearts, are infinite

Nope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cause_and_special_cause_(statistics)#Common_mode_failure_in_engineering

[Bored chemist]

It is so mind boggling.

I am sorry to hear that your mind is boggled.
Please come back when it is working properly.
Preferably not before then.

[duffyd]

No one has or will EVER refute the reality that Christ is GOD. Proof positive lies within the souls of all who choose to seek HIM and no one can deny that fact with any evidence. 

[Bored chemist]

Proof positive lies within the souls of all who choose to seek HIM and no one can deny that fact with any evidence. 

In order to present that as "proof" you need to explain why no other mechanism is possible.
In particular, you need to explain away the idea that they are mistaken having been "brainwashed" into belief.

So, over to you.
What's you proof of that?

[duffyd]

Testimonies from Christians are powerful scientific forms of evidence for GOD's existence. Millions testify to the same kinds of personal, life transforming experiences which by definition have evidentiary value. The odds that so many people, from such diverse backgrounds, for over two thousand years, state unequivocally that HE HIMSELF, risen from the dead and alive in their hearts, are infinite and must be taken very seriously by anyone looking into the possibility that Christ was in fact WHO HE claimed to be.

Combine this evidence with all the other evidence we have and there is no doubt JESUS is exactly WHO HE claimed to be to a scientific certainty.

[Bored chemist]

Did you miss this bit, or not understand it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cause_and_special_cause_(statistics)#Common_mode_failure_in_engineering

Essentially " a million lemmings can't be wrong"  is not a valid argument.