[duffyd]

Hundreds of millions of human beings across time and space in unison declaring the glory in/of JESUS CHRIST is overwhelming evidence that indeed HE rose from the grave. Scientists know this. It is perfectly clear. One must kick against the pricks to deny it and we know what happens to the most virulent among them.
Scientists conducting double blind, controlled studies don't yield such results, nothing close.

The most difficult problem one faces when he refuses to see what is plain as day, is how uncomfortable he is. Everything is tainted in his life by rejecting truth, by ignoring the reality that GOD is and that HIS SON gave up HIS life to redeem mankind. Whosoever will. Nothing in his heart is calm and whole. Like growing up in a mafia saturated tradition, one cannot see what is obvious to others who were not trained in violence and greed.

[duffyd]

Hundreds of millions of human beings across time and space in unison declaring the glory in/of JESUS CHRIST is overwhelming evidence that indeed HE rose from the grave. Scientists know this. It is perfectly clear. One must kick against the pricks to deny it and we know what happens to the most virulent among them.
Scientists conducting double blind, controlled studies don't yield such results, nothing close.

The most difficult problem one faces when he refuses to see what is plain as day, is how uncomfortable he is. Everything is tainted in his life by rejecting truth, by ignoring the reality that GOD is and that HIS SON gave up HIS life to redeem mankind. Whosoever will. Nothing in his heart is calm and whole. Like growing up in a mafia saturated tradition, one cannot see what is obvious to others who were not trained in violence and greed.

Boko Haram Executes Pastor Who Turned Hostage Video into Testimony
(UPDATED) Beheaded Brethren leader taken captive in Nigeria said he was at peace with death because Jesus “is still alive.”
JAYSON CASPER

I'm a Rare Breed: An Elite Chess Player Who’s Open About His Faith
Why I follow Jesus publicly, even when people warn that my career will suffer. Wesley So
A wonderful account of CHRIST'S love.

How God Sent His Word to An Iraqi Interpreter
I saw an American soldier reading his Bible, and I wanted to know more.
Abbas Hameed

A Local Preacher and a Jailhouse Jesus Freak Brought Me to Faith in Prison
I was sentenced to life for a murder I didn't commit. But God didn't forget me.
Gene McGuire

I Was a New-Age Healer. Then I Realized I Wasn’t the One Doing the Healing.
Why a Reiki master renounced her craft to follow Jesus.
Nicole Watt

I Was Warned to Keep My Distance from ‘Infidels.’ Then One Prayed for My Family.
How a son of the Arabian Gulf met the Son of God in a strange new place.
Zaine Abd Al-Qays

I Assumed Science Had All the Answers. Then I Started Asking Inconvenient Questions.
My journey from atheist dogma to Christian faith was paved with intellectual and spiritual surprises.
Sy Garte

My Name Was on a Federal Most-Wanted List. Now It’s Written in the Book of Life.
When the authorities caught up with my financial shenanigans, I went on the run. But Christ caught up with me.
RICHARD D. MANGONE WITH PETER K. JOHNSON

Testimonies like these stream on and on and on and on for 2,000 years. How different HE is portrayed by those who know HIM personally from those who know so little.

[Bored chemist]

Hundreds of millions of human beings across time and space in unison declaring the glory in/of JESUS CHRIST is overwhelming evidence that indeed HE rose from the grave.

Even more non-Christians not doing so is  stronger evidence that He didn't.

Did you not realise that?

The most difficult problem one faces when he refuses to see what is plain as day, is how uncomfortable he is. Everything is tainted in his life by rejecting truth, by ignoring the reality that GOD is and that HIS SON gave up HIS life to redeem mankind. Whosoever will. Nothing in his heart is calm and whole. Like growing up in a mafia saturated tradition, one cannot see what is obvious to others who were not trained in violence and greed.

You need a mirror.
It's the church that acts like the Mafia.

Also, you forgot to answer the question

Can you explain, in scientific terms, how we would distinguish between that post of yours and the views of someone suffering from some sort of delusions?

[alancalverd]

a mafia saturated tradition, one cannot see what is obvious to others who were not trained in violence and greed.

I think that is a bit anti-Catholic. Or maybe anti-Anglican, given the violence of the early Church of Syphilis.  Justifiably so, but wouldn't it be better to right past wrongs rather than continue to rehearse them to justify throwing stones at schoolkids?

[duffyd]

a mafia saturated tradition, one cannot see what is obvious to others who were not trained in violence and greed.

I think that is a bit anti-Catholic. Or maybe anti-Anglican, given the violence of the early Church of Syphilis.  Justifiably so, but wouldn't it be better to right past wrongs rather than continue to rehearse them to justify throwing stones at schoolkids?

That's an ancient trick, too, Al. You surprise me dearly beloved. Someone with your smarts resorts to such nonsense to form arguing positions is sad. It is beneath you. You must be able to find something worthwhile, something with some weight or intellectual integrity behind it to use to defend your faith in HIM as a mere Rabbi, whacked for getting on the nerves of some people. No? I have to wonder if you've concluded you no longer have any foundation whatsoever to debate your side, or perhaps, as is becoming increasingly plausible, that you never did. 

[Bored chemist]

I have to wonder if you've concluded you no longer have any foundation whatsoever to debate your side,

You are not in a position to complain about that.
You consistently refuse to enter into debate.
I presume it's because you know your cause is lost.

Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 11:10:37
Can you explain, in scientific terms, how we would distinguish between that post of yours and the views of someone suffering from some sort of delusions?

[duffyd]

The Second Coming actually took place about 100 years ago. Jesus materialised before the Pope and asked about the state of religion on earth. The Pope showed him his crucifix and said "There are billions like this". Jesus said "If they are still using that bloody thing, I'm wasting my time."  He was never seen again, nor ever will be, by people who revere instruments of torture and execution.

"His buddies also called him GOD"

citation needed, particularly as none of the current bible was written by anyone who knew him. Big Al

[duffyd]

The Second Coming actually took place about 100 years ago. Jesus materialised before the Pope and asked about the state of religion on earth. The Pope showed him his crucifix and said "There are billions like this". Jesus said "If they are still using that bloody thing, I'm wasting my time."  He was never seen again, nor ever will be, by people who revere instruments of torture and execution.

"His buddies also called him GOD"

citation needed, particularly as none of the current bible was written by anyone who knew him.

Nobody "penned the NT", or ever claimed to. It's a random collection of books and letters of vague provenance, collated edited and translated at various times for the benefit of whoever paid for the work. Big Al

[Bored chemist]

Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 11:32:13

Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 11:10:37
Can you explain, in scientific terms, how we would distinguish between that post of yours and the views of someone suffering from some sort of delusions?

[alancalverd]

Someone with your smarts resorts to such nonsense to form arguing positions is sad.

Not nonsense. "Events, dear boy, events". (Harold Macmillan)

[Bored chemist]

The Second Coming actually took place about 100 years ago. Jesus materialised before the Pope and asked about the state of religion on earth. The Pope showed him his crucifix and said "There are billions like this". Jesus said "If they are still using that bloody thing, I'm wasting my time."  He was never seen again, nor ever will be, by people who revere instruments of torture and execution.

"His buddies also called him GOD"

citation needed, particularly as none of the current bible was written by anyone who knew him.

Nobody "penned the NT", or ever claimed to. It's a random collection of books and letters of vague provenance, collated edited and translated at various times for the benefit of whoever paid for the work. Big Al

OK, That's not an absurd view of it.
But given that the contemporary record is bad to non existent, how do we know what , if anything, Christ taught?

[alancalverd]

How? By a process of elimination and statistical probability.

We can take it as fact that the Romans occupied the eastern Mediterranean between late BC  and early AD, and that the occupied population in the area now known as Israel was predominantly Jewish.
People under military occupation tend to grumble a bit, and some of us are genetically predisposed to argue with each other as well as with authority.
It seems entirely likely that the Romans crucified the occasional rabble rouser pour decourager les autres and to keep favour with the native establishment.
There are various accounts of at least one such, born in Nazareth, who taught and preached in synagogues and in public places.
The core tenets of Judaism seem not to have changed in a very long time.
Ergo it is highly probable that Jesus of Nazareth taught something fairly close to what we now recognise as liberal Judaism.

Tweaks like "the sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the sabbath" are still disputed, and not only among Jewish scholars: children's playgrounds are locked on Sundays in Lewis, the Quran (650 AD) definitely forbids women to drive cars, and Jains, who have been around as long as Jews, may not eat root vegetables - but does that include onions that grow on the surface?

The model of an educated, religious, charismatic dissenter puts Jesus on a par with modern rebels like Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela - rare, but entirely probable. 

[duffyd]

There are various accounts of at least one such, born in Nazareth, who taught and preached in synagogues and in public places.

To which "various accounts" do you refer?

[duffyd]

A quote for Alan

33 When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them. 34 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. 38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!”

Instead of killing the disciples for proclaiming Christ was risen from the dead, they beat them and ordered them not to speak of Jesus. 

[duffyd]

The model of an educated, religious, charismatic dissenter puts Jesus on a par with modern rebels like Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela - rare, but entirely probable.

Saul/Paul was trained by Gamaliel. Paul said: 3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. 4 I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, 5 as the high priest and all the Council can themselves testify. I even obtained letters from them to their associates in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished.

"A Pharisee of Pharisees," he said.

Jesus received no such formal training as far as we know, and was never ordained or officially designated as a Rabbi, but HE drew to Himself those who were.

[duffyd]

During Watergate, John Ehrlichman, a top aide to Nixon, was justifying the break-in of Dr. Ellsberg's office. Sam Ervin, who headed the investigative body of the Senate into their activities, told him the constitution didn't permit Nixon to do that. Ehrlichman responded, "How do you know that?"
"'Because I understand the English language. It's my mother tongue.'"

Christ is blamed for practically every evil imaginable. But, if you simply read what He said, HE opposed evil, all evil, regardless which version or translation you read.   

[Bored chemist]

Christ is blamed for practically every evil imaginable.

Not really.
But if there is  a God, then He has a lot to answer for.
The bad thing that Christ did was to tell people to carry on following the OT.

[duffyd]

I have no reason to doubt that he existed. As I said much earlier, he was a radical rabbi (addressed by his friends as such) who was killed for causing trouble. Nothing unusual about that, nor was the radical Judaism he preached beyond the very broad span of our ancient traditions.

Good football coaches teach something they refer to as "staying on your block" which simply means, keep driving your legs and keep jamming your body with full force into the defender until the Ref blows his whistle. The phrase is just a reminder, a term that stresses the importance to persist, to keep going all out, and not let anything, anything, no matter what, direct your efforts away from that single minded goal.
To wit, I have asked alan and his like-minded teammates to answer my questions which derive from the numerous and outrageous errors they make continuously. I am in no hurry. We have a long time before that whistle blows.
Be aware, and if you are intelligent and a good dude/dudess, you can't miss it: Our intellectual superheroes don't participate in these debates as though they have any confidence in the positions they hold.   

Again, my friend, what do you mean he was a radical rabbi? Where did you get that idea? You say his buds said that about him. What did they say? specifically, do you really know? (I don't think you do.)

Where is this text from?

Again, what radical form of Judaism did Jesus preach?

Karaitism.

"Nothing unusual about that,

Maybe not to another karaite.
But to the rabbinical groups like the pharisees of the time it was extremely radical.

nor was the radical Judaism he preached beyond the very broad span of our ancient traditions."

Completely incorrect.  Jesus in Mark 7 utterly spoke against the these traditions. These takanot.
Matthew 15.

What are you saying? Give several examples from his preaching. I don't believe you know.

Just did.

He preached HE HIMSELF was GOD ALMIGHTY

Show one place Jesus ever said that?

Just one...

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple courts in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24So the Jews gathered around Him and demanded, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”

39At this, they tried again to seize Him, but He escaped their grasp.

[alancalverd]

To return to the subject of this thread

There is an underlying consensus that the bible is "accepted" as a collection of poetry, ethical principles, and historical records of dubious provenance and variable reliability, but generally consistent with the known history of the Middle East up to about 2000 years ago.

There is general disdain for Duffy's bizarre assertions and interpretations of some heavily curated and multiply retranslated aspects of the New Testament, which have nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

[duffyd]

To return to the subject of this thread

There is an underlying consensus that the bible is "accepted" as a collection of poetry, ethical principles, and historical records of dubious provenance and variable reliability, but generally consistent with the known history of the Middle East up to about 2000 years ago.

There is general disdain for Duffy's bizarre assertions and interpretations of some heavily curated and multiply retranslated aspects of the New Testament, which have nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

I needed a good chuckle. Thanks.