[duffyd]

He was called the author of that body of work, not the original documents.

So you agree with me. Thank you.

"Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven residing in Jerusalem..." Time out. What was that? Which kind of Jew?

[duffyd]

He was called the author of that body of work, not the original documents.

So you agree with me. Thank you.

"Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven residing in Jerusalem..." Time out. What was that? Which kind of Jew?

You got it Al. They were devout. They were the real deal and they were overwhelmed by the evidence that they witnessed first hand. Unlearned people were speaking in the very languages they use in the various nations where they lived.

It is interesting to read how Paul ran into Hebrew Christians during his missionary journeys where he had not previously visited and the N.T. hadn't been completed.

It spread like a recipe for my mother's Yorkshire Pudding. HE preached to multiple thousands and healed folks of every disease and malady, raising the dead, returning healthy limbs and eyesight. Who wouldn't want to know the guy and tell everyone about HIM? He was a phenome extraordinaire. Talk about rock stars ( I forgot--Jesus Christ Superstar) Devout, responsible, intelligent Jewish people left everything, immediately, to travel by His side. Even King Herod knew of HIM and wanted the opportunity to meet HIM. Not too many kings hear about, let alone want to meet, and have some silly little nutcase, perform for them.

A subtle assumption (until you think about it) is made that nothing happened throughout that ancient region of the world until we find it written about in the N.T. People were starving for the streams of living water just as much then, maybe more, than we do today. Life was tough back in the day. 

As I said, GOD still pours out HIS gifts upon HIS children including the ability to speak in an unknown language. Want proof?

The more thoroughly they are defeated in a debate, the more bitterness one observes erupting out of folks who often say they have no ill will for HIM.

[Petrochemicals]

BTW, does entanglement disprove C is the fastest anything can go?

It's more correct to say that c is as fast as information can go. Quantum entanglement doesn't transfer information.

C is as fast as anything can travel through spacetimes fabric at varying gravity densities etc, without being energy+1.

Edit:

Dear god this thread still going.

[Colin2B]

C is as fast as anything can travel through spacetimes fabric at varying gravity densities etc, without being energy+1.

Can we at least pretend that this thread has anything to do with science.

BTW, does entanglement disprove C is the fastest anything can go?

No, it just proves you don’t understand entanglement. Don’t worry, you are not alone in this.

[alancalverd]

I can't speak for all scientists, but I think I've answered the question from my point of view.

I accept the bible for what it is - a collection of ancient texts that has been selected, edited and translated over thousands of years and mostly deals with the history, laws and poetry of my tribe.

Other people have all sorts of bizarre beliefs related to its content, some of which have led to the inexcusable maltreatment of others. 

[Bored chemist]

The more thoroughly they are defeated in a debate, the more bitterness one observes erupting out of folks who often say they have no ill will for HIM.

Are you sure?
You have utterly failed to win any debate on the actual topic.
Yet I don't see an "eruption of bitterness", Just petty minded ignorance and bad pop psychology.

[duffyd]

BTW, does entanglement disprove C is the fastest anything can go?

It's more correct to say that c is as fast as information can go. Quantum entanglement doesn't transfer information.

C is as fast as anything can travel through spacetimes fabric at varying gravity densities etc, without being energy+1.

Edit:

Dear god this thread still going.

Is not.

[duffyd]

He was called the author of that body of work, not the original documents.

So you agree with me. Thank you.

"Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven residing in Jerusalem..." Time out. What was that? Which kind of Jew?

You got it Al. They were devout. They were the real deal and they were overwhelmed by the evidence that they witnessed first hand. Unlearned people were speaking in the very languages they used in the various nations where they lived.

It is interesting to read how Paul ran into Hebrew Christians during his missionary journeys where he had not previously visited and the N.T. hadn't been completed.

It spread like a recipe for my mother's Yorkshire Pudding. HE preached to multiple thousands and healed folks of every disease and malady, raising the dead, returning healthy limbs and eyesight. Who wouldn't want to know the guy and tell everyone about HIM? He was a phenome extraordinaire. Talk about rock stars ( I forgot--Jesus Christ Superstar) Devout, responsible, intelligent Jewish people left everything, immediately, to travel by His side. Even King Herod knew of HIM and wanted the opportunity to meet HIM. Not too many kings hear about, let alone want to meet, and have some silly little nutcase, perform for them.

A subtle assumption (until you think about it) is made that nothing happened throughout that ancient region of the world until we find it written about in the N.T. People were starving for the streams of living water just as much then, maybe more, than we do today. Life was tough back in the day. 

As I said, GOD still pours out HIS gifts upon HIS children including the ability to speak in an unknown language. Want proof?

The more thoroughly they are defeated in a debate, the more bitterness one observes erupting out of folks who often say they have no ill will for HIM.

And, therein lies the rub. See, the problem is, HE was GOD. Some just can't get it. They can't even begin to think about a Man being GOD, but that is exactly Who HE was. And that is a huge stumbling block for them. The mere concept, the very idea of GOD/MAN doesn't register. That alone disrupts rational thinking. No one is GOD/MAN. It isn't possible. You can't be GOD and man in one human being and from that critical error in thinking, everything else, by default of sorts, must be totally absurd.
But, we are not discussing an unusually gifted man. He was not a great guy living a virtuous life. He was not some special, charismatic, highly effective teacher/preacher. He was not a role model or super philosopher or mystical shaman or guru or witch doctor. He was not imaginary, a figment of imagination, a fictional super hero or some wild eyed, half crazed loony tune. He wasn't like anyone else.
The deal is HE was GOD ALMIGHTY. HE visited planet earth arriving as a totally helpless, crying baby. You cannot be GOD and be a baby, but HE was.
Science can't explain many things. We recognize that and still pursue new breakthroughs. We accept that science hasn't released all her secrets yet, but we continue searching for more answers through it.
GOD decided HE doesn't have to clue me in on everything. HE can be GOD and a new born. HE can die and be immortal. HE can rise from the dead in three days and hang with the repentant crucified cat that very day in paradise.
But, we do need to know certain things if we are to be convinced, and HIS LOVE for me was so huge, so overwhelming, so pure and tender and powerful and life transforming, there wasn't any room left for doubt. HE's my DAD, the ONE I longed for all my life and gave up hope I'd fine. HIS sheer massiveness, HIS strength and knowledge and Presence wiped away every tear, every objection, all my pain in a split second. HE was there inside my gut and all around me and I feared I'd gone out of my mind. I looked people who knew me squarely in the eye and asked in all seriousness, "Have I gone nuts?"
"No, not at all. You seem happier, more together than ever. All the good in you has come out."

Francis Collins said one of the reasons he became convinced the bible was legit was through the love and kindness shown to him by Christians who were deathly ill as he came across them working in hospitals. LOVE is greater than science. Science is great, but it bows before HIM.

[duffyd]

Why would a scientist accept the bible? Why not?

[Bored chemist]

The deal is HE was GOD ALMIGHTY.

Prove it.

[Bored chemist]

Why would a scientist accept the bible? Why not?

Because there's no supporting evidence, and it contradicts itself hundreds of times.
It also doesn't actually help if science accepts it.
The Bible supports slavery, torture  and bigotry.
Wouldn't it be better if nobody accepted it?

[duffyd]

The gift of languages which confounded the people in ACTS 2 is given today.

Testing GOD is forbidden? “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
If HE wasn't challenging people to test HIM, what was HE doing? HE makes a guarantee to everyone, to you, too.
In the Greek, the words ask, seek and knock are in the continuous present tense. Keep asking, keep seeking...

It is most sad to engage scientists in debate only to find they too refuse the scientific method which is widely available, to see if HE exists . No. That's not the correct word, available. GOD pleads with us, with everyone to test HIM.  The scientific method is in fact one superb way to prove beyond a doubt that HE IS. Ask Him. Keep asking HIM. Keep seeking HIM. Keep knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door just as Dylan did. That's how you discover of all those with eyes and all those with ears, HE is the only ONE who can reduce us to tears.

[duffyd]

Interesting.

There is nothing recorded in the four Gospels where Jesus specifically mentions homosexuality the way Paul did in 1 Cor. 6:9.

Likewise classical Hebrew "eved" (and presumably Aramaic) doesn't distinguish between slave, servant and indentured worker, but the OT sets down rules for the proper treatment of all employees according to time-limited contract.

Which supports my point that the real problem isn't Christ, but Christians.

You are a bit fickled there Old Al, aren't you? 

"Both written in Greek. By Jews? I think not. Our holy texts are written in Hebrew." Big Al.

"the real problem isn't Christ, but Christians."

Which is it? Do you reject Christ for the reasons you gave or not? You have to decide, not for me. I don't know you and never will.  It seems logical that you can't have HIM both ways. Was HE the Messiah or not and upon what information do you form your opinion? We started with these questions and it was demonstrated that the accounts we have of HIM from ancient, preserved documents and the recorded real life experiences of multiple millions beginning with those who first encountered HIM to this moment, that HE said HE was GOD and HE proved HE was GOD and HE will prove it today if you ask HIM to.

[Colin2B]

It is most sad to engage scientists in debate only to find they too refuse the scientific method which is widely available,

It would help if you would explain exactly which scientific method you think would apply, what experiment, what quantitive predictions. Remember, personal testimonials after the fact are not scientific method.

[alancalverd]

HE's my DAD, the ONE I longed for all my life and gave up hope I'd fine.

This really belongs in the "God" thread, but it's the key to monotheistic faith.

Most people spend their childhood in an environment where, whatever happens during the day, a big man with a beard (or at least a 5 o'clock shadow) arrives in the evening and dishes out justice, forgiveness, pizza, etc. Some of us grow up and assume all the responsibilities of a dad (or mum), including the liability for failure. Others, who lack the guts to be a proper adult, get on their knees and hope that there's another big man with a beard who will put things right in this life or the next, if you ask nicely. And some make a living by embellishing and selling that ridiculous idea, for which there is no actual evidence.   

[duffyd]

HE's my DAD, the ONE I longed for all my life and gave up hope I'd fine.

This really belongs in the "God" thread, but it's the key to monotheistic faith.

Most people spend their childhood in an environment where, whatever happens during the day, a big man with a beard (or at least a 5 o'clock shadow) arrives in the evening and dishes out justice, forgiveness, pizza, etc. Some of us grow up and assume all the responsibilities of a dad (or mum), including the liability for failure. Others, who lack the guts to be a proper adult, get on their knees and hope that there's another big man with a beard who will put things right in this life or the next, if you ask nicely. And some make a living by embellishing and selling that ridiculous idea, for which there is no actual evidence.

I'll move this discussion to Houston if necessary. Tell me where and I'll abide.

You see Old Al, going in circles doesn't work. HE is Christ, as you say. It makes no difference why some people say they believe in HIM or what they do or don't do in His Name. Has nothing to do with you. But, Christ has everything to do with you.

[duffyd]

It is most sad to engage scientists in debate only to find they too refuse the scientific method which is widely available,

It would help if you would explain exactly which scientific method you think would apply, what experiment, what quantitive predictions. Remember, personal testimonials after the fact are not scientific method.

Read over what I've written because I have stated it many times.

Janis Joplin had everything but love.

[Bored chemist]

If HE isn't challenging people to test HIM, what was HE doing?

Well, He was doing the exact opposite of testing.
A test is discriminating.
He was saying He would let anyone in.

Since you don't know what testing actually means it's absurd for you to say things like

It is most sad to engage scientists in debate only to find they too refuse the scientific method which is widely available, to see if HE exists .

You don't understand that method.

[duffyd]

HE's my DAD, the ONE I longed for all my life and gave up hope I'd fine.

This really belongs in the "God" thread, but it's the key to monotheistic faith.

Most people spend their childhood in an environment where, whatever happens during the day, a big man with a beard (or at least a 5 o'clock shadow) arrives in the evening and dishes out justice, forgiveness, pizza, etc. Some of us grow up and assume all the responsibilities of a dad (or mum), including the liability for failure. Others, who lack the guts to be a proper adult, get on their knees and hope that there's another big man with a beard who will put things right in this life or the next, if you ask nicely. And some make a living by embellishing and selling that ridiculous idea, for which there is no actual evidence.

Atheism Is Inconsistent with the Scientific Method, Prizewinning Physicist Says
In conversation, the 2019 Templeton Prize winner does not pull punches on the limits of science, the value of humility and the irrationality of nonbelief.

Marcelo Gleiser, a 60-year-old Brazil-born theoretical physicist at Dartmouth College and prolific science popularizer, has won this year’s Templeton Prize. Valued at just under $1.5 million, the award from the John Templeton Foundation annually recognizes an individual “who has made an exceptional contribution to affirming life’s spiritual dimension.”
.

[duffyd]

I can't speak for all scientists, but I think I've answered the question from my point of view.

I accept the bible for what it is - a collection of ancient texts that has been selected, edited and translated over thousands of years and mostly deals with the history, laws and poetry of my tribe.

Other people have all sorts of bizarre beliefs related to its content, some of which have led to the inexcusable maltreatment of others. 

Does your bible include the N.T.?