[jerrygg38 (OP)]

Naked 4.26.2020 7pm
What is the value of life?
  I live on 3 acres of land in the Sand hills NC among the pine trees. My older daughter insisted that we have some chickens. They live and run around the land. At night they fly and jump up into the trees. They have children but at various times some predator eats some of them.  A week ago UI had a rooster and two chickens. Then one chicken was gone. Today I found a pile of feathers. She was eaten.
   The chickens are like pets. I feed them and they hide their eggs. My dog gets along with them. My inner yard is only about one quarter acre and they are pretty safe. Yet they go into the larger yard which is also fenced but not as good.
   We are like the chickens. When we are young someone takes care of us. Later we take care of others.  What is the value of our life? We eat and are eaten. The virus is killing so many of us. This causes many to wonder the meaning of their lives. Who benefits from our existence? We do not. People imagine that somehow lowly we will have eternal life just by believing in a religious path. Some will go to hell and others to paradise. Some benefit so that others suffer. What a cruel God would do such things.
  So the philosophers ponder a creator God who would do such horrible things. The poor chicken is killed and no longer suffers. The monster God cares more for the chicken than man. Fortunately we do not have a monster God. Our God is innocent of the creation. The only thing that our God is guilty of is perfecting us. Since our God is just a higher level of ourselves, we are guilty of producing our God.
  Man has a desire to live. Man wants to continue to live as long as possible. Each of us is one little link on the chain of life of man. We live and die and the self is gone. Some of us are erased and some of us are absorbed by our Gods. God eats us spiritually.
  The chicken is eaten and man is eaten. We have value to our fellow man and value to our Gods. Some of us hope for individual salvation. They hope to continue to exist. There is no value in this One life is quite enough. The only possible reward is being part of the collective life upon a future Earth of higher man. Hopefully we will be vegetarians and the chicken will not be eaten as well.

[alancalverd]

One of Steinbeck's memorable quotes is from Lee Chong, the grocer in Cannery Row
"When a man celebrates, a chicken dies."
Or as my aunt Dorothy said during a celebration
"If it wasn't for Jewish weddings, the country would be overrun with chickens"
Apparently the domestic chicken is now the most populous warmblooded creature on the planet. Though it isn't quite the dominant species: more people dedicate more time and effort to the welfare of grasses than of any other living thing. And when the virus has killed us all, the grass will still be there, with free range chickens eating whatever lives between the blades.   

[jerrygg38 (OP)]

To Alancalverd
GG: Nice thoughts. We eat about 6 chickens per week or over 300 per years. So I take care of a few and try to give them a good life. The chicken hawks circle over head but they do not attack. I guess they only eat baby chickens. Probably more mice. My chickens do eat many bugs and hopefully some ticks. The rooster is constantly grabbing the chicken for sex. She is always running away from him but he often grabs her. Anyway he is a happy rooster.

[duffyd]

4.Keep it science
Except for the chat section, this forum is for the discussion of science.

A permanent rules give us permission not to discuss science on "Chat" if I understand it.

Does anyone believe that love exists and if so, how would you prove it using science?

I don't know how to start a new thread or I would have asked this question in that fashion.

Asking about the meaning of life as the OP has, I believe love is the answer. But, how can love be proven to exist, scientifically, if indeed there is such a thing as love? I believe most of us wouldn't hesitate to say most emphatically that love is real, it exists, for sure! But, what does science have to say about it? Can science observe it, measure it, predict it, value it, define it?

[duffyd]

Naked 4.26.2020 7pm
What is the value of life?
  I live on 3 acres of land in the Sand hills NC among the pine trees. My older daughter insisted that we have some chickens. They live and run around the land. At night they fly and jump up into the trees.

It is practically impossible to wake up chickens at night when they are asleep.

Provide them with secure shelter for the nighttime where they cannot be attacked by predators. When they are young, they can be trained very easily to use it for sleeping. They will automatically enter it as it darkens outside. You will lose far fewer this way.

[alancalverd]

Interesting thought. Domestic chickens aren't all that different, intellectually at least, from their forest-dwelling ancestors, which is why they roost on a perch. AFAIK God doesn't provide enclosed coops for wild birds, so roosting in trees is what they evolved to do.
The question is whether they would be safer dispersed in a tree or huddled together in a coop. We know that if a fox or other carnivorous mammal gets into a henhouse it will slaughter everything in sight, but foxes can't climb trees and even a cat would be unlikely to catch more than one chicken if it did so.
My guess is that if the tree is near the middle of a sufficiently large property, it's the best solution. We're just about to acquire some chooks but although their pen will be under the trees, they are all on the boundary line so half the chickens will probably end up in the road!   

[jerrygg38 (OP)]

Naked 5.1.2020  5 pm
duffyD asks: Does anyone believe that love exists and if so, how would you prove it using science?
I don't know how to start a new thread or I would have asked this question in that fashion.
Asking about the meaning of life as the OP has, I believe love is the answer. But, how can love be proven to exist, scientifically, if indeed there is such a thing as love? I believe most of us wouldn't hesitate to say most emphatically that love is real, it exists, for sure! But, what does science have to say about it? Can science observe it, measure it, predict it, value it, define it?
GG: Love is spiritual. We have both a physical mind and a spiritual mind.  A boy meets a girl and they are physically attracted to each other.  They embrace and there is a spiritual connection.  This causes a feedback effect. The boy is physically attracted to the girl physically. At the same time the spiritual connection develops. They go crazy after each other. They are in love. It is a helpless feeling. All you want to do is be with the other person.
  Often the intense spiritual attraction fades in time. Then the physical person wonders why he or she is involved with the other person.
  The best love is a loving friendship. The physical person is somewhat attracted to the other person. Spiritually they are not that passionate toward each other. Over time a spiritual friendship develops. They marry and have children and stay together for life.  You can divorce a lover when the love fades but a friend is a friend forever. I married my friend and we are still together after 55 years.

[jerrygg38 (OP)]

To Alancalverd;
  When the chickens were young they went into the little hen house at night. It was a struggle getting them in. They they got big and went up the trees. They are happy there. There is danger for sure but for the most part they are killed in the daytime. The fish in the seas do not want to be in a fish tank. The lions do not want to be in a zoo. I provide wooden bars to help the chickens up their favorite tree. I tried to build a tree house for them. They hated it. They get along with my dog and he protects them some of the time.

[duffyd]

GG: "Love is spiritual. We have both a physical mind and a spiritual mind.  A boy meets a girl and they are physically attracted to each other.  They embrace and there is a spiritual connection.  This causes a feedback effect. The boy is physically attracted to the girl physically. At the same time the spiritual connection develops. They go crazy after each other. They are in love. It is a helpless feeling. All you want to do is be with the other person.
  Often the intense spiritual attraction fades in time. Then the physical person wonders why he or she is involved with the other person.
  The best love is a loving friendship. The physical person is somewhat attracted to the other person. Spiritually they are not that passionate toward each other. Over time a spiritual friendship develops. They marry and have children and stay together for life.  You can divorce a lover when the love fades but a friend is a friend forever. I married my friend and we are still together after 55 years."

I hear you. IOW, there are different kinds of love. At least I think that's what you are saying and I agree with you.
But, how can science prove love exists? Which tools does science bring to the table proving that what you've described is love?

[jerrygg38 (OP)]

Duffyd asks
I hear you. IOW, there are different kinds of love. At least I think that's what you are saying and I agree with you.
But, how can science prove love exists? Which tools does science bring to the table proving that what you've described is love?
GG: This is for future science. Our particles spend most of the time in the light speed Co dimension. they spend some of the time in the Cs dimension.As they speed up to light speed Co, they spend more additional time in the Cs dimension. As we advance we will produce Cs detectors. This will enable us to looking into our spiritual minds. Then we will detect the effects when people fall in love. In we will be able to detect if someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

[duffyd]

Duffyd asks
I hear you. IOW, there are different kinds of love. At least I think that's what you are saying and I agree with you.
But, how can science prove love exists? Which tools does science bring to the table proving that what you've described is love?
GG: This is for future science. Our particles spend most of the time in the light speed Co dimension. they spend some of the time in the Cs dimension.As they speed up to light speed Co, they spend more additional time in the Cs dimension. As we advance we will produce Cs detectors. This will enable us to looking into our spiritual minds. Then we will detect the effects when people fall in love. In we will be able to detect if someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

Fascinating. Science has no way of proving love exists, even though you know it does because you have experienced it.

Thanks

Anyone else?

[duffyd]

I'm a bit surprised. I was hoping that those who demand to see scientific evidence to establish GOD's reality would want to defend their faith.

What this proves is that "scientific evidence" as they define it means nothing to them. They rely upon "evidence" in order to reject GOD.

Batting 1,000! Still. Ty Cobb, Mickey, you boys better be scared

[duffyd]

Duffyd asks
I hear you. IOW, there are different kinds of love. At least I think that's what you are saying and I agree with you.
But, how can science prove love exists? Which tools does science bring to the table proving that what you've described is love?
GG: This is for future science. Our particles spend most of the time in the light speed Co dimension. they spend some of the time in the Cs dimension.As they speed up to light speed Co, they spend more additional time in the Cs dimension. As we advance we will produce Cs detectors. This will enable us to looking into our spiritual minds. Then we will detect the effects when people fall in love. In we will be able to detect if someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

That's what I think. My wife knows when I'm guilty before I commit the deed.

[duffyd]

Love, a definition:

 Love is patient,
love is kind.
It does not envy,
 it does not boast,
it is not proud.
 It does not dishonor others,
it is not self-seeking,
 it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are
tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

[duffyd]

Always enjoyed this line from I Anderson in a piece he did about relationships:

"And it's only the giving that makes you what you are."

When our nation finds itself overcome with grief and sadness and we are perplexed and fearful, the media, I've noticed, suddenly features human interest stories that exalt the kindness Americans show one another. When we feel rich and strong, needing nothing, we are bombarded with accounts of the cruelty we show each other.

[jeffreyH]

If you put any value on human life then it becomes a commodity to be used up. Human life is beyond any value you can put on it. This doesn't make it valueless. It makes it irreplaceable.

[jerrygg38 (OP)]

DuffyD said:One proof some use to deny GOD is goes like this: Ancient people believed that thunder was God expressing His anger. Since we discovered electricity, we know that isn't true. Therefore, when Christians claim that GOD created the universe, they do what the idiots back in the day did. They-the Christians- believe in nonsense, too. Someday, we are assured, science will explain creation.
GG: I never needed any proof of God. When I was a child God was always there for me. I would speak and God would answer me. As I grew older I met many people who said God spoke to them. I accepted that as true. Yet they did not argue with God. They merely accepted the encounters as proof of their religious beliefs. They did not ask God how God came to exist. They did not ask God to solve complex problems for them.
  Thunder and lightning are interesting. Can God control lightning? Alternatively can God control our minds so that we think he controls lightning? Did Jesus really walk on water or did God make the Gospel writers believe that it happened?
   So I ask my God for confirmation in lightning strikes. During a storm I point to a spot in the sky and demand lightning at that point. It happens. Over and over again I do the same thing and it works most of the time. I go faster and faster and I get some failures. Then my God said “The next one is on you”. So I run into the house and hide in a closet until the storm is over. Did God control the lightning or die God control my mind so that I believed that God controlled the lightning?
  One night I was trying to solve the Rubik cube to no avail. In desperation I called upon my God for help. My mind went blank and my fingers moved. In about 5 seconds the cube was solved.
   Anyway my God said “I evolved”. My God was created by the universe and not the other way around.

[duffyd]

If you put any value on human life then it becomes a commodity to be used up. Human life is beyond any value you can put on it. This doesn't make it valueless. It makes it irreplaceable.

Go watch "Shadowlands". Right now. You'll be glad if you do.

[duffyd]

 So I ask my God for confirmation in lightning strikes. During a storm I point to a spot in the sky and demand lightning at that point. It happens. Over and over again I do the same thing and it works most of the time. I

Can I give you my wife's work address?

[Colin2B]

If you put any value on human life then it becomes a commodity to be used up. Human life is beyond any value you can put on it. This doesn't make it valueless. It makes it irreplaceable.

Go watch "Shadowlands". Right now. You'll be glad if you do.

Shadowlands is an excellent film, but Brian Sibley’s book is better. Worth reading his biography of Lewis.
However, you haven’t made a specific point regarding @jeffreyH post.