[Drmarkf (OP)]

I see Manchester Airport Group has made wearing of gloves (and masks) a requirement for air travellers: https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/coronavirus/ [nofollow]

Anyone know any evidence for this (IMHO) lunatic strategy? Have they consulted any of the expert U.K. bodies, such as PHE?

This is not a no-risk strategy, since gloves can increase transmission to the wearer and to others under some circumstances, especially by the untrained, and I don’t see any good guidance on the Manchester site. Here is some background on clinical glove usage, including why you need to perform hand hygiene before and after putting them on, why you shouldn’t wash hands wearing gloves, and why they don’t differ from bare hands as regards transmission among surfaces and other people or your own face:

http://professionals.site.apic.org/files/2013/09/DosDonts-of-Gloves.pdf [nofollow]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/gloves.html [nofollow]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr5116.pdf#page=19 [nofollow]

[Bored chemist]

At least in part, the justification is this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

[Drmarkf (OP)]

At least in part, the justification is this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater [nofollow]

Well that’s fine, and just as I thought.
I’ll stop worrying about it...

(Although I have emailed the content of my first post to a mate who’s a travel journalist)

[alancalverd]

Expert body?  PHE? Sadly, no longer true.

Masks reduce the probability of the wearer infecting others. If I were working at an airport I would know that half of the passengers may be as infective as the rest of the UK population, and the other half have been exposed for at least an hour to every airborne infection carried by any other passenger. So I'd be grateful of nobody coughed, spat or even breathed heavily in my direction.

Gloves prevent the wearer from acquiring infection from contaminated surfaces. By insisting on glove-wearing, I protect myself from claims that you were infected by my toilets and washbasins.

Having no great love of the drunk and unwashed, "security" queues, shops selling cosmetics, watches and suitcases (I've never understood cosmetics for healthy people, and doesn't every passenger already have a suitcase and a wristwatch?) and overpriced sandwiches, I fly from a rural grass strip to various city airports. We're miles from anywhere, only a dozen aircraft, but for the time being aviators and engineers  are strictly segregated, no cash transactions, bring your own coffee (try that on "security"), only one person in the office at any time.... Pleased to see Manchester are doing their best, in a much more difficult environment.

[Drmarkf (OP)]

Gloves prevent the wearer from acquiring infection from contaminated surfaces. By insisting on glove-wearing, I protect myself from claims that you were infected by my toilets and washbasins.

No they don’t prevent the wearer acquiring infection, they just prevent the wearer from performing hand hygiene before they touch their own faces or pass the contamination on to some other object they touch.

[alancalverd]

 No matter what sensible people do, idiots will always find a way to harm themselves. Which is why I pointed out that gloves primarily protect the airport management.

[Bored chemist]

Gloves prevent the wearer from acquiring infection from contaminated surfaces.

People see nurses and doctors wearing gloves and think it's to stop the Dr catching things.
That's seldom the point. They are largely to stop the doctor carrying infection from one patient to the next- they change gloves between patients.
If you have a security  officer who changes gloves after every passenger, then the gloves will be doing their job, and the queue will be longer than most flights.

[Petrochemicals]

To look snappy and be in the current trend.

Gloves prevent the wearer from acquiring infection from contaminated surfaces. By insisting on glove-wearing, I protect myself from claims that you were infected by my toilets and washbasins.

No they don’t prevent the wearer acquiring infection, they just prevent the wearer from performing hand hygiene before they touch their own faces or pass the contamination on to some other object they touch.

Agree drfbrkd, people wearing vinal gloves whilst smoking is a rather good joke. How many gloves would yoy need to makeit through a supermarket trip.

[alancalverd]

How many gloves would yoy need to makeit through a supermarket trip.

One pair, worn throughout the session in the shop. Scan and pack as I go, then remove gloves first then mask as I get in the car, turning them inside out (it takes practice to flip the mask without touching the outside, but a bit of HAZMAT training helps). Gloves on again at home, decontaminate packages and credit card, strip gloves and wash hands thoroughly. So far so good, but I will eventually succumb when COVID becomes endemic.

A better scheme now in operation is to order "click and collect" and have their guy load stuff into the car, then just HAZCHEM procedure when I get home. The Tesco guys are good - they don't open or close the hatchback, so the only possible contact transmission route is via the bag handles. 

[Bored chemist]

(it takes practice to flip the mask without touching the outside, but a bit of HAZMAT training helps)

And most people lack the training, so they contaminate their hands.
But they think the gloves made them superheroes, so they don't clean stuff as they unpack...

I will eventually succumb when COVID becomes endemic.

And now you know how the gloves might help to bring about that endemic status.

[alancalverd]

This gives me two options for survival: not wearing PPE and relying on the intelligence, training and civic sense of everyone else, with the inevitable consequence of an early demise since as you say they are all AntiSocial Morons, or wearing PPE and delaying the inevitable for a few days. As the sun is shining, I prefer the latter. And who knows, the ASMs may even die out and take their pestilence with them if I hang on long enough.

In the USA the ASMs shoot anyone wearing a mask, so your analysis would be more appropriate across the pond. 

[Petrochemicals]

How many gloves would yoy need to makeit through a supermarket trip.

One pair, worn throughout the session in the shop. Scan and pack as I go, then remove gloves first then mask as I get in the car, turning them inside out (it takes practice to flip the mask without touching the outside, but a bit of HAZMAT training helps). Gloves on again at home, decontaminate packages and credit card, strip gloves and wash hands thoroughly. So far so good, but I will eventually succumb when COVID becomes endemic. 

But what about handelling your cards, do you have them open in the trolley or do you rummage in your pockets ? , do you decontaminate the trolley handle, is there a point to it ? Wash your clothes upon arrival at home ?  Do you wear an apron ? Do you accept contamination of the products  and your bags ? What about if there are only tills ? What about if you get an itch ?

I believe the answer will be wash hands !

[alancalverd]

As I said, gloves on before entry and throughout the process. It is entirely possible that I contaminate the credit card, which is why I decontaminate it on returning home. I assume that everything outside my home, car or plane is contaminated (Civil Defence nuclear war training). I've spent enough time inside HAZMAT suits not to worry about the occasional itch - I just remember that I once applied to be an astronaut (in space, nobody picks his nose) and concentrate on getting the job done.

I don't shop where there are only manned tills - no point in standing in a queue of potential  vectors. Which is a pity because Aldi's bacon is the best but the nearest self-scan Aldi is 30 miles away!

There's nothing new about contaminated environments and barrier nursing procedures. I have no doubt that I'll make a mistake one day, but having seen what happened to a buddy who caught a dose of COVID and was only saved by reading his pulse oximeter, phoning for an ambulance and spending 10 days in a coma, I'll continue to avoid it where possible.

Back to Civil Defence training for an illuminating aside. During a hot moment in the Cold War I was assigned as scientific adviser to the designated community leader of our village. Ex-artillery officer, he dismissed the earnest presentations from the Home Office apparatchiks with one memorable phrase "Have you ever actually seen civilians under fire? F***ing shambles."  Anyway, he carried out his required search for a secure HQ and came up with a pub with a well-stocked, deep, stone cellar. His instruction to me was "When the balloon goes up, you and I will go to the Kings Head, lock ourselves in the cellar, and shoot any bugger that comes near us."

Radioactive fallout decays, viruses multiply.

[Petrochemicals]

As I said, gloves on before entry and throughout the process. It is entirely possible that I contaminate the credit card, which is why I decontaminate it on returning home. I assume that everything outside my home, car or plane is contaminated (Civil Defence nuclear war training).

But why gloves then, you will be contaminated along with the clothing ?

[Bored chemist]

viruses multiply.

Only inside  a compatible host.
In other circumstance  they decay- very much like radioactivity.
The half-life varies considerably with circumstances. On a warm dry surface in bright sunshine, it's probably down to seconds.

[alancalverd]

As I said, gloves on before entry and throughout the process. It is entirely possible that I contaminate the credit card, which is why I decontaminate it on returning home. I assume that everything outside my home, car or plane is contaminated (Civil Defence nuclear war training).

But why gloves then, you will be contaminated along with the clothing ?

Being a big boy*, I can remove my own gloves and pay a professional lady to remove my clothes. Sometimes she wears rubber gloves and nothing else, sometimes the whole nurse's kit. Then we get in the shower together. The Tesco ritual just adds a frisson of delayed gratification. And olive oil.

*she tells me so

[alancalverd]

viruses multiply.

Only inside  a compatible host.

of which there are around 68,000,000 in the UK, most of whom visit supermarkets.

In other circumstance  they decay- very much like radioactivity.
The half-life varies considerably with circumstances. On a warm dry surface in bright sunshine, it's probably down to seconds.

hence gloves off in the car or plane. No point in carrying your sputum into my sterile environment.

[Bill S]

I could incur an on-the-spot fine of £500 for stepping off my property. As I have been “confined” since 24.03, I am, perhaps, less likely than most passers-by to infect anyone else, so I would be fined for putting myself at risk.  Of course, one could argue that, if infected, I would put NHS workers at additional risk, but that is making a range of assumptions which may, or may not, be valid.  A couple of days ago I was told of a local, elderly, man who was deliberately trying to become infected because he said he would rather die than live with the current restrictive situation.   “Chacun �  son gout” I suppose.

If there is no further extension, I should be able to go out again on 30.06. In the meantime, I stay put, take what seem to be reasonable precautions and avoid dying of worry.

[Bored chemist]

of which there are around 68,000,000 in the UK, most of whom visit supermarkets.

Try to avoid bringing them home with you.

my sterile environment.

And ... Superman has arrived.
The rest of us know that the environment in our car is  not reliably sterile (WRT corona, never mind anything else)

[alancalverd]

It's all a question of relative risk. As you say, the virus has a limited lifetime outside of a compatible living host. I don't know who lives in your car when you aren't in it, but mine seems not to be inhabited by any mammals, so it is less likely to deliver infectious aerosol than, say, Tesco's checkout queue.

Life is not entirely risk free and always ends in death, but some of us like to look before we cross the road.