[nudephil (OP)]

Here's a question from listener Gillian:

We hear a lot about BAME people being more susceptible to COVID-19. If this were true, wouldn't you have far higher death rates in South Asian and Caribbean countries? Isn't it more likely due to socioeconomic reasons and underlying health conditions?

What do we think?

[alancalverd]

The evidence is of numbers infected and numbers dying. Without knowing the exposure history of each case, "susceptibility" is an unwarranted assumption.

What we do know is a numerical disproportionality among non-whites. But some details are revealing.

Socioeconomically, doctors and nurses are far from the bottom of the tree. The COVID infection rate among NHS workers is about 6 times that of the general public, but whilst 15% of the UK population is non-white, the figure for NHS staff is over 45%, and the NHS is the largest employer, so even if susceptibility is independent of color, you can expect proportionately more  COVID deaths among UK nonwhites.

There are other mysteries, in particular that Brits of Bangladeshi origin seem more affected than those of Indian or Pakistani descent. Occupation? Diet? Not clearly a genetic effect.

We do not have reliable figures on cause of death even for the UK. It is likely that any statistics from South Asia are even less meaningful, and equally likely that Caribbean countries have a much lower incidence of the disease and possibly lower R factors than the UK anyway.
 

[Petrochemicals]

The classification of Bame people and white people is a bit indistinct. More white people go to university yet.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/06/poor-boys-attend-university_n_8921854.html

White peole have had years of selective reproduction in damp cold contions before central heating and medicine. Just like ethiopeans have had generations of selective breeding at high altitude, they dont run fast because they are poor or suffered from the worst famine in the 20th century, not even selective reproduction would account for that, (unlike the ex slaves of jamacia who are fantastic sprinters). Further more the nhs workers (surgeons etc) from bame are healthy wwith good access to money.

[evan_au]

I think in all countries, people with lower income tend to live in more crowded conditions which promotes rapid spread of disease.

In countries without a national health scheme (eg USA, Brazil), poorer people will not have easy access to testing, isolation and medical treatment, so the death rates will be higher.

In groups of knowledge-workers who are able to work effectively from home, exposure will be lower, and infection rates will be lower. But this is a large pool of susceptible people who are likely to be the victims of a second or third wave of infection (if we don't get a vaccine first).

[alancalverd]

Further more the nhs workers (surgeons etc) from bame are healthy wwith good access to money.

and unavoidable daily exposure to COVID

[alancalverd]

White peole have had years of selective reproduction in damp cold contions before central heating and medicine.

but no prior exposure to COVID

[alancalverd]

The classification of Bame people and white people is a bit indistinct.

The official statistics are whatever people choose to write in their census returns. It's probably the clearest distinction you could ask for. You can choose "White British""White Irish" "White Other" or any one of a range of non-white choices including "Non-white Other". Not many people opt for Klingon. As more than 50% opt for one of the white classifications, the M word is true if irrelevant.

[Petrochemicals]

Further more the nhs workers (surgeons etc) from bame are healthy wwith good access to money.

and unavoidable daily exposure to COVID

White peole have had years of selective reproduction in damp cold contions before central heating and medicine.

but no prior exposure to COVID

The classification of Bame people and white people is a bit indistinct.

The official statistics are whatever people choose to write in their census returns. It's probably the clearest distinction you could ask for. You can choose "White British""White Irish" "White Other" or any one of a range of non-white choices including "Non-white Other". Not many people opt for Klingon. As more than 50% opt for one of the white classifications, the M word is true if irrelevant.

Titleof thread

BAME people being more susceptible - aren't socioeconomic reasons more likely?

[set fair]

The obvious health condition is vitamin D deficiency, which correlates with darkness if skin in the
UK. This is roundly ignored, gross negligence is the politest description I can give. There is no excuse for anyone with even a little influence not raising this until it is taken seriously.

What did you do in the pandemic? I repeatedly ignored vitamn D deficiency.

[Colin2B]

The obvious health condition is vitamin D deficiency, which correlates with darkness if skin in the
UK. This is roundly ignored, gross negligence is the politest description I can give.

I don’t understand why you say this is being ignored. NHS advice has consistently identified dark skinned people as at risk from Vit D deficiency and recommends supplementing. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/
However, this is a long way from suggesting, as some do, that large doses of D will cure active Covid. Currently there are clinical trials in both UK and US to determine whether this is true.

There are many reasons why BAME people might be more susceptible from socioeconomic, lifestyle (eg extended family housing), to underlying health trends. Oversimplification, a typical political pitfall, does no one any favours, especially those suffering.

This is worth watching https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-52920591/coronavirus-and-poverty-is-there-a-link

[alancalverd]

The obvious health condition is vitamin D deficiency, which correlates with darkness if skin in the UK. This is roundly ignored, gross negligence is the politest description I can give. There is no excuse for anyone with even a little influence not raising this until it is taken seriously.

The problem was well known 40 years ago when I joined the NHS. GPs were regularly briefed on the incidence of rickets among British Asians in particular, and were handing out vitamin supplements and dietary advice as a matter of course. IIRC it was less of a problem among folk of West Indian or African origin, whose diet was closer to the north European intake.