The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

What falls faster: heavy or light objects?

  • 20 Replies
  • 1410 Views
  • 5 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EvaH (OP)

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ********
  • 225
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« on: 15/09/2020 11:53:54 »
Emily asks:

Why do heavy objects fall to the ground faster than light objects? If light objects are easier to pull, shouldn't gravity pull them down faster than heavy objects?

Can you help?
Logged
 



Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2162
  • Activity:
    29%
  • Thanked: 164 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #1 on: 15/09/2020 12:15:00 »
Quote from: Emily
Why do heavy objects fall to the ground faster than light objects? If light objects are easier to pull, shouldn't gravity pull them down faster than heavy objects?
Gravity accelerates all objects at the same rate, so an object of twice the mass is pulled with twice the force, which is why massive things weigh more.  So in the absence of friction, all objects should fall at the same rate regardless of their mass or shape.

Friction changes that story, so a small pebble will fall faster than a person with a parachute, an example that shows that heavy objects don't necessarily fall to the ground faster than a light one. It's all a matter of ratio of gravitational force in one direction to the force of friction in the other.  At some speed (the terminal velocity), the two cancel out and further acceleration ceases.
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11024
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 635 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #2 on: 15/09/2020 14:02:20 »
Galileo proposed a very simple reductio ad absurdam.

Suppose a big rock falls faster than a small one. Now tie them together. The small one slows down the big one. But the big one accelerates the small one.

Torricelli is credited with demonstrating that a pebble and a feather fall at the same rate in a vacuum, and the experiment has been replicated on the moon.
« Last Edit: 15/09/2020 14:04:35 by alancalverd »
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Janus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 756
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 180 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #3 on: 15/09/2020 16:24:52 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/09/2020 14:02:20
Galileo proposed a very simple reductio ad absurdam.

Suppose a big rock falls faster than a small one. Now tie them together. The small one slows down the big one. But the big one accelerates the small one.

Torricelli is credited with demonstrating that a pebble and a feather fall at the same rate in a vacuum, and the experiment has been replicated on the moon.
And on a larger scale here:
Logged
 

Offline myuncle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 45
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #4 on: 20/09/2020 01:21:13 »
To notice the difference in a vacuum, you would need to compare the fall of a feather versus something as big as Ariel or Umbriel. Am I right?
Logged
 



Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2162
  • Activity:
    29%
  • Thanked: 164 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #5 on: 20/09/2020 01:48:22 »
Two different masses falling at the same rate assumes both objects are small in comparison to the object pulling them gravitationally.

Therefore a feather dropped from a stationary position 380,000 km above a moonless Earth would take significantly longer to fall to the surface than would the moon (from a stationary position). The difference is that the moon would have a significant effect on the Earth itself, pulling it over 4000 km upward as the moon falls, thus increasing the gravitational pull on the moon and shortening the distance it has to fall.
So if measured down to the femtosecond, the rock really does fall faster than the feather.
« Last Edit: 20/09/2020 13:13:01 by Halc »
Logged
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 9019
  • Activity:
    76%
  • Thanked: 885 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #6 on: 20/09/2020 09:55:16 »
Quote from: Halc
So if measured down to the femtosecond, the rock really does fall faster than the feather.
Not if you dropped them together.

The mass of (rock+feather) would attract the Earth equally to rock and feather.
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11024
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 635 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #7 on: 20/09/2020 10:42:48 »
And if you dropped them separately they would accelerate towards the barycenter of the (earth + object) system at the same rate. It's only because "practical " objects are so much smaller than the planet that we don't notice shifts in the barycenter as we move stuff around. 
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 21403
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 487 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #8 on: 20/09/2020 11:06:27 »
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 01:21:13
To notice the difference...
What difference?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline myuncle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 45
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #9 on: 20/09/2020 11:22:26 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/09/2020 11:06:27
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 01:21:13
To notice the difference...
What difference?

difference in speed. In a vacuum I suppose any heavier object falls faster than a light object, but we can't detect it.
Logged
 

Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2162
  • Activity:
    29%
  • Thanked: 164 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #10 on: 20/09/2020 13:12:26 »
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 11:22:26
In a vacuum I suppose any heavier object falls faster than a light object, but we can't detect it.
This is not correct. This contradicts Newton's laws of motion. The acceleration of a particle due to the gravity of a presumed fixed object (Earth say) is GM/r², which is not a function of the mass of the particle at all.
You speak not of acceleration, but of speed. Those laws say little of the speed that something falls since initial speed must be known. The laws speak only of acceleration, which again, is not a function of the mass of the accelerating thing.

Quote from: evan_au on 20/09/2020 09:55:16
Quote from: Halc
So if measured down to the femtosecond, the rock really does fall faster than the feather.
Not if you dropped them together.

The mass of (rock+feather) would attract the Earth equally to rock and feather.
If the two are dropped together from very close together, then I agree.  The feather hits the ground sooner than it would by itself. It is aided by the presence of the rock next to it.

As you separate the two, the effect lessens, and then actually becomes negative.
So for example, I simultaneously drop a feather and rock, but on opposite sides of Earth. The feather will now take longer to hit Earth than it would have falling by itself.

If 90° apart, neither will effect the other much, but the race will probably be won by the object which has the moon on the horizon. Tidal forces definitely outweigh (pun intended) the sort of difference due to the tiny masses of the objects I'm dropping.
« Last Edit: 20/09/2020 13:18:22 by Halc »
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11024
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 635 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #11 on: 20/09/2020 16:24:40 »
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 11:22:26
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/09/2020 11:06:27
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 01:21:13
To notice the difference...
What difference?

difference in speed. In a vacuum I suppose any heavier object falls faster than a light object, but we can't detect it.
See Galileo's response at reply # 2 above.
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11024
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 635 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #12 on: 20/09/2020 16:42:17 »
Quote from: Halc on 20/09/2020 13:12:26
This is not correct. This contradicts Newton's laws of motion. The acceleration of a particle due to the gravity of a presumed fixed object (Earth say) is GM/r², which is not a function of the mass of the particle at all.
You speak not of acceleration, but of speed. Those laws say little of the speed that something falls since initial speed must be known. The laws speak only of acceleration, which again, is not a function of the mass of the accelerating thing.
Let's be pedantic, just for fun

There's no objection to anything contradicting a law of physics. Indeed that's how physics advances! The "laws" are not prescriptions of how things should behave, but descriptions of how they have been observed to behave. Which is why Newtonian mechanics describes the behavior of mesoscopic objects at low speeds but not when v → c.

Whilst we observe that gravitational acceleration is independent of the test mass m if m << M, there's no obvious reason why it should be. It happens that as close as we can measure, inertial mass mi = gravitational mass mg,  which is why a = F/mi = GmgM/mir2 = GM/r2, but that's a real oddity: the electric and magnetic fields of particles and bodies are not related to their mass, so why should the gravitational force be so precisely proportional to inertial mass?
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline myuncle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 45
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #13 on: 20/09/2020 22:52:27 »
Quote from: Halc on 20/09/2020 01:48:22
Two different masses falling at the same rate assumes both objects are small in comparison to the object pulling them gravitationally.

Therefore a feather dropped from a stationary position 380,000 km above a moonless Earth would take significantly longer to fall to the surface than would the moon (from a stationary position). The difference is that the moon would have a significant effect on the Earth itself, pulling it over 4000 km upward as the moon falls, thus increasing the gravitational pull on the moon and shortening the distance it has to fall.
So if measured down to the femtosecond, the rock really does fall faster than the feather.

Ok, the moon would have a significant effect on the Earth increasing the gravitational pull and shortening the distance it has to fall. But even a pebble in theory has some gravitational pull, too tiny to detect obviously, but not absent. No?
« Last Edit: 20/09/2020 22:55:05 by myuncle »
Logged
 

Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2162
  • Activity:
    29%
  • Thanked: 164 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #14 on: 21/09/2020 00:02:26 »
Quote from: myuncle on 20/09/2020 22:52:27
But even a pebble in theory has some gravitational pull, too tiny to detect obviously, but not absent. No?
If a pebble weighs 1 Newton near Earth, then the Earth weighs 1 Newton on the pebble due the gravity of the pebble. It must accelerate towards the pebble in response to that equal and opposite force. So indeed, not absent. The planet accelerates more towards the pebble than it does towards the feather, unless (as Evan points out) both the pebble and feather are there together and the attraction is due to their combined mass.
Obviously 1 Newton isn't going to accelerate something as massive as Earth in any macroscopic way.

The pebble doesn't fall any faster. It just hits the ground sooner because the ground comes up to meet it a tiny bit.
Logged
 

Offline Yahya A.Sharif

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 302
  • Activity:
    0.5%
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #15 on: 01/10/2020 17:34:51 »
This is how it works:
1) inertia of small objects
2) inertia of bigger objects
The small objects must  fall faster because of its small inertia
3)) force of gravity on small objects
4)force of gravity on bigger objects
The small objects must  fall slower because of small gravity force
a=F/m
In this equation:
Acceleration" a" increase for a small mass m , but at the same time gravity force F decreases for smaller m then " a "is constant
In the same equation:
Acceleration decreases for bigger mass m , but at the same time force of gravity F for the bigger mass  increases then "a"is constant
This constant acceleration "a" is 9.8 m/s² makes two different masses with same height fall at the same time.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2020 17:44:14 by Yahya A.Sharif »
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11024
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 635 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #16 on: 01/10/2020 23:01:23 »
This is all very true, but merely experimental observation. It doesn't explain why inertial mass = gravitational mass.
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline hamdani yusuf

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1763
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #17 on: 09/10/2020 04:15:35 »
Quote from: EvaH on 15/09/2020 11:53:54
Emily asks:

Why do heavy objects fall to the ground faster than light objects? If light objects are easier to pull, shouldn't gravity pull them down faster than heavy objects?

Can you help?
This is what ordinary experience tells us. That's why Aristotle thought so. The same substance seems to fall at different rate when falling to the ground. Heavy rain falls faster than light rain, although they are both water. Big sand grains fall faster than sand dust.
Downward gravitational force in falling object depends on the its mass, which is proportional to its volume. On the other hand, upward air friction that resist downward movement depends on the object's surface area. It also depends on the speed through air. So when the object fall, it will accelerate downward until reaching its terminal velocity. Its speed stops increasing because downward gravity force is canceled by upward air friction.
Assuming that the objects are spherical, downward force is proportional to R³, while upward force  is proportional to R². Consequently, larger objects will have higher terminal velocity compared to smaller ones, assuming they have the same shapes and compositions.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2162
  • Activity:
    29%
  • Thanked: 164 times
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #18 on: 09/10/2020 13:49:21 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 01/10/2020 17:34:51
The small objects must  fall slower because of small gravity force
Today's F minus:
Logged
 

Offline Petrochemicals

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1487
  • Activity:
    54.5%
  • Thanked: 28 times
  • forum overlord
    • View Profile
Re: What falls faster: heavy or light objects?
« Reply #19 on: 09/10/2020 22:11:34 »
Galileo was wrong and the aristotlewas correct, his balls did hit the floor at different times,it's just not really percept able.

What falls faster a neutron star or the comet that killed the dinosaurs?
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 
The following users thanked this post: evan_au



  • Print
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: heavy or light  / gravity  / issac newton  / what falls faster  / stronger gravity 
 

Similar topics (5)

If we put a mirror millions of light years away and reflected earth, could we see what earth looked like millions of years ago?

Started by thedocBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 9
Views: 11263
Last post 20/05/2018 00:53:37
by raf21
What is "light" pressure?

Started by sorincosofretBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 34
Views: 27310
Last post 13/02/2018 19:46:54
by Bill S
What is a halogen light bulb? What halogen is used and why is this better?

Started by chrisBoard Technology

Replies: 4
Views: 9347
Last post 02/02/2010 11:17:45
by Mazurka
Is solar energy the same as light energy?

Started by FeliciaBoard Technology

Replies: 6
Views: 19409
Last post 19/03/2020 15:17:27
by Paul25
What is Time? If there was no light would Time cease to be?

Started by londounkmBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 291
Views: 98851
Last post 27/06/2020 13:55:35
by Bill S
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.278 seconds with 86 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.