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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. what is temperature?
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what is temperature?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #360 on: 27/05/2022 10:41:15 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:54:32
So why did you introduce Wigner?
Because you asked about the Windscale fire.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #361 on: 27/05/2022 10:42:59 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:54:32
is misleading because vibrational and rotational energy also contribute.
And they are kinetic (to do with movement) , i.e. not potential (to do with static stress).
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #362 on: 27/05/2022 12:26:22 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:55:36
Suggesting that someone guesses (i.e.  forms a hypothesis), then tests it is entirely scientific.
Saying "I don't know" is a more effective and efficient way to convey the same message as yours.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #363 on: 27/05/2022 13:06:20 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 12:26:22
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:55:36
Suggesting that someone guesses (i.e.  forms a hypothesis), then tests it is entirely scientific.
Saying "I don't know" is a more effective and efficient way to convey the same message as yours.
My message was that if you thought about it, you might work out the answer.
How is that the same as saying "I  don't  know"?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #364 on: 27/05/2022 13:09:17 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 27/05/2022 10:42:59
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:54:32
is misleading because vibrational and rotational energy also contribute.
And they are kinetic (to do with movement) , i.e. not potential (to do with static stress).
On average, half of the energy of vibrating bodies is potential, not kinetic.

And the electronic contribution to temperature s largely due to storage of energy in electrostatic fields.
Why not just accept the fact that it isn't only down to kinetic energy?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #365 on: 27/05/2022 13:14:18 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 27/05/2022 10:41:15
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 09:54:32
So why did you introduce Wigner?
Because you asked about the Windscale fire.
I didn't "ask" I pointed out that it was a counter example to your assertion that
Quote from: alancalverd on 24/05/2022 10:20:34
The potential energy of a strained lattice may be enormous, but as that can't be transferred by thermal conduction to another body,

It's a little beside the point.
Thermal energy still is more than just kinetic energy.
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #366 on: 27/05/2022 14:58:59 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/05/2022 23:22:50
Quote from: Spring Theory on 25/05/2022 20:09:02
My point was that Entropy is the log of something.  The log of something has no units.

S = -kBlogp where kB, Boltzmann's constant, has dimensions ML2T-2K-1, so S is far from dimensionless.

You are getting bogged down by the constants.  One of the most useful tools in analyzing physics is working in natural units. This basically sets your constants equal to 1 (more to that though).  Remove all constants from your equation and then make your analysis. Remember rate of change of a constant is zero so it plays no roles in derivatives.

This technique can be used to express all physical properties in terns of energy to some power.  An example would be that pressure can be expressed as energy to the fourth power and mass expressed as energy to the first power and length expressed as energy to the minus 1 power.

Or we can beat this horse one more time...
« Last Edit: 27/05/2022 15:01:27 by Spring Theory »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #367 on: 27/05/2022 15:24:01 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 13:06:20
My message was that if you thought about it, you might work out the answer.
How is that the same as saying "I  don't  know"?
If you said "I  don't  know", I might work out to find the answer. What's the difference?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #368 on: 27/05/2022 15:30:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 13:14:18
It's a little beside the point.
Thermal energy still is more than just kinetic energy.
The main question in this topic is about temperature. Wikipedia article says it's about average kinetic energy.
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Offline Origin

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #369 on: 27/05/2022 15:47:29 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 27/05/2022 14:58:59
You are getting bogged down by the constants.
You are not making sense.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #370 on: 27/05/2022 15:48:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 15:24:01
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 13:06:20
My message was that if you thought about it, you might work out the answer.
How is that the same as saying "I  don't  know"?
If you said "I  don't  know", I might work out to find the answer. What's the difference?
I offered a suggestion on where to start.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/05/2022 16:39:33
Guess.
or, even better, learn science.

I remain puzzled that, rather than following the recommendation, you pretend that it didn't exist.
Why won't you learn?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #371 on: 27/05/2022 15:49:11 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 15:30:04
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 13:14:18
It's a little beside the point.
Thermal energy still is more than just kinetic energy.
The main question in this topic is about temperature. Wikipedia article says it's about average kinetic energy.
Wiki is not God.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #372 on: 27/05/2022 15:52:09 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 27/05/2022 14:58:59
pressure can be expressed as energy to the fourth power
How do you get this?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #373 on: 27/05/2022 15:57:07 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:48:48
I offered a suggestion on where to start.
Where should I start?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #374 on: 27/05/2022 15:58:56 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 27/05/2022 14:58:59
One of the most useful tools in analyzing physics is working in natural units. This basically sets your constants equal to 1 (more to that though). 
Numerically, yes, but you have to transfer the dimensions of your constant to some other quantity, and of course it can only work for one constant at a time.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #375 on: 27/05/2022 16:00:04 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 15:57:07
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:48:48
I offered a suggestion on where to start.
Where should I start?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:48:48
learn science.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #376 on: 27/05/2022 16:01:11 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:48:48
I remain puzzled that, rather than following the recommendation, you pretend that it didn't exist.
Why won't you learn?
You are puzzled that I disagree with you, but can't point out which point you disagree on.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #377 on: 27/05/2022 17:13:41 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 16:01:11
You are puzzled that I disagree with you
No
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:48:48
I remain puzzled that, rather than following the recommendation, you pretend that it didn't exist.

And again, you seem to ignore what I actually say.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #378 on: 27/05/2022 17:16:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/05/2022 13:48:01
Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/05/2022 09:06:47
It depends.
On what, exactly?
If you had spent time learning and thinking, you might know by now.
Instead, you spend time saying stupid things like
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/05/2022 16:01:11
You are puzzled that I disagree with you, but can't point out which point you disagree on.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #379 on: 27/05/2022 22:32:15 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/05/2022 15:49:11
Wiki is not God.
Of course not. But it represents common knowledge of many contributors, with many of them are expert in their fields. If you disagree with them, at least you need a supporting evidence to show their mistakes.
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