[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A resonating tuning fork has higher average kinetic energy than a silent tuning fork.

And a tuning fork inside a rocket has more kinetic energy than one on the ground. Or maybe not, if you are in the rocket. According to Einstein, it's the one on the ground that is receding at umpteen mph and thus has more kinetic energy.

Hence the rather pedantic distinction between internal (thermal) and total (gross motion) kinetic energy. Physics is pedantic.

So, what kind of motion is needed to increase temperature of a tuning fork?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The fact that the electron gas model is widely accepted and in broad agreement with experimental results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_electron_model#Properties_of_an_electron_gas

Why do you ask?
Have you a better model?

Read the article to the end.  You'll find this part.

The free electron model presents several inadequacies that are contradicted by experimental observation.

No, I have no better model, yet. At least until I finish some of experiments.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If it is properly set up, most of the power is radiated away into space.
Ideally, all of it would be radiated.
The important bit is that practically none goes into increasing the KE of the electrons.

Which part of the antenna change when electric power is fed into it? Is it the electrons, or metal atoms, or both, or none? 
If the electrons are prevented from moving along with the electric signal, will the antenna still radiate the power?

[alancalverd]

A resonating tuning fork has higher average kinetic energy than a silent tuning fork.

And a tuning fork inside a rocket has more kinetic energy than one on the ground. Or maybe not, if you are in the rocket. According to Einstein, it's the one on the ground that is receding at umpteen mph and thus has more kinetic energy.

Hence the rather pedantic distinction between internal (thermal) and total (gross motion) kinetic energy. Physics is pedantic.

So, what kind of motion is needed to increase temperature of a tuning fork?

Wrong way round. If you heat the tuning fork, you will increase the mean kinetic energy of the atoms within it. In most  cases this will increase the length of the arms and decrease its gross vibration frequency.

[alancalverd]

If the electrons are prevented from moving along with the electric signal, will the antenna still radiate the power?

Obviously not, which is why we use conductors for antennas.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If the gases are cooled down to near abolute zero, will they still have negative temperature?

Could you at least try to think about your questions a bit before you ask them?
If you have something at a negative temperature, and you want to get to absolute zero you don't cool it down, you warm it up.

Just stop the gas molecules from moving. What happens to the temperature?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A resonating tuning fork has higher average kinetic energy than a silent tuning fork.

And a tuning fork inside a rocket has more kinetic energy than one on the ground. Or maybe not, if you are in the rocket. According to Einstein, it's the one on the ground that is receding at umpteen mph and thus has more kinetic energy.

Hence the rather pedantic distinction between internal (thermal) and total (gross motion) kinetic energy. Physics is pedantic.

So, what kind of motion is needed to increase temperature of a tuning fork?

Wrong way round. If you heat the tuning fork, you will increase the mean kinetic energy of the atoms within it. In most  cases this will increase the length of the arms and decrease its gross vibration frequency.

What kind of motion does the heated tuning fork have more than unheated one?

[alancalverd]

 None, until you ping it. Then it vibrates, but slower.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If the electrons are prevented from moving along with the electric signal, will the antenna still radiate the power?

Obviously not, which is why we use conductors for antennas.

OK, let's wait and see if other members agree with us.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

None, until you ping it. Then it vibrates, but slower.

Let's be consistent with our definitions. Higher temperature tuning fork has higher internal kinetic energy. Hence it is related to motion of metal lattice atoms in the tuning fork.

"Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the constituent atoms and molecules in a body". There being no other definition in my lifetime, that was always what was taught.

[Deecart]

And a tuning fork inside a rocket has more kinetic energy than one on the ground. Or maybe not, if you are in the rocket. According to Einstein, it's the one on the ground that is receding at umpteen mph and thus has more kinetic energy.

Hence the rather pedantic distinction between internal (thermal) and total (gross motion) kinetic energy. Physics is pedantic.

I dont think so.
I am not a specialist but it is how i understand it :

External kinetic energy is some energy related to "something" and not related to "manything" (not billions particles)
Per example, a moving rocket, have or do not have, some additionnal kinetic energy, depending on the comparison point you choose (two rockets flying parallel with the same speed do not have kinetic energy regarding each other).
Because of the need of an external relativ state, we can call it "external".

Internal thermal kinetic is related to a statistic quantity (many particles. so we use the kinetic relativ of the particles relativ to the mean speed of the particles volume.)
Because of this "mean" reference we can call it "internal".
The reference frame is the volume itself (itself imply internal), and you can also do it with the rocket (because it is composed of billions of particles moving slightly using covalent bounds).

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Is there a magnitude of negative temperature? Can an object have more negative temperature than another object? What would happen if they interact?

[alancalverd]

You still have not grasped the difference between internal kinesis and gross motion. This is worrying. By the age of about 6 months, a dog has a very clear concept of "inside" and takes care always to pee "outside".

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

You still have not grasped the difference between internal kinesis and gross motion. This is worrying. By the age of about 6 months, a dog has a very clear concept of "inside" and takes care always to pee "outside".

What's the difference again? In simple English please.

[Bored chemist]

What's the difference again? In simple English please.

It seems that no English is simple enough for you.
You need to face the fact that you will never understand this.

[alancalverd]

You still have not grasped the difference between internal kinesis and gross motion. This is worrying. By the age of about 6 months, a dog has a very clear concept of "inside" and takes care always to pee "outside".

What's the difference again? In simple English please.

Ask an English-speaking dog. Or a mathematician who can tell you all about bounded sets in language that is as complicated as you like.

Here's an old mathematical joke.
How do you get an elephant into a jam jar?
Consider an elephant outside a jam jar, then perform a trivial inversion of vector space.

In physics, it's known as a Fourier transform and hugely useful in crystallography, medical imaging and communications engineering.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

If you think that you already understand a concept X by simply saying that X is X, and X is not not X, then I can't help thinking that you are deluding yourself.
You can say that X is Y, and then continue saying that Y is X, forming a circular logic. It doesn't solve your delusion problem either.

[alancalverd]

I don't think that distinguishing between inside and outside is a circular argument. Though there is an ancient Greek story about a philosopher walking round a huge pillar whilst facing it, and wailing "I'm trapped". 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I don't think that distinguishing between inside and outside is a circular argument. Though there is an ancient Greek story about a philosopher walking round a huge pillar whilst facing it, and wailing "I'm trapped". 

A spinning ball can have high kinetic energy, while maintaining its position in an inertial frame of reference. What makes you think that rotational energy as outside/external?

[Bored chemist]

I don't think that distinguishing between inside and outside is a circular argument. Though there is an ancient Greek story about a philosopher walking round a huge pillar whilst facing it, and wailing "I'm trapped". 

A spinning ball can have high kinetic energy, while maintaining its position in an inertial frame of reference. What makes you think that rotational energy as outside/external?

We answered that 11 pages ago/

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/03/2022 03:56:58
The question is, what distinguishes thermal energy from kinetic energy?
The motion having some sort of structure, rather than being random. Essentially, it's an effect of entropy.

It is sad, but it seems that you are really not able to keep enough facts in your head at the same time tounderstand temperature.
As I said, you should forget about trying.
If you haven't got it sorted out after 12 pages of coaching, you probably never will.