The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. what is temperature?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 56 57 [58] 59 60 ... 66   Go Down

what is temperature?

  • 1318 Replies
  • 353413 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 86 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1140 on: 29/11/2024 08:39:46 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/11/2024 22:58:44
Your fallacy is in confusing gross motion of a body with thermal motion of the particles inside it..
What's the fundamental difference between gross motion and thermal motion? If you can answer this question, then this thread can be satisfactorily closed.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1141 on: 29/11/2024 11:06:18 »
Thermal motion is the displacement of particles within[ a body relative to each other and (in the "one particle " case, or) the boundaries of the body.  Gross motion is the displacement of the entire body relative to other bodies.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1142 on: 29/11/2024 13:48:41 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/11/2024 08:26:19
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/11/2024 11:30:14
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/11/2024 08:02:29
What happens to its angular momentum? Will it be conserved?
Yes.
And I didn't need to read the rest of your post.

Are you sure that the laser doesn't carry away some of the system's angular momentum?
Not if it's set up to point away from the system's centre of mass.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1143 on: 29/11/2024 13:50:58 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/11/2024 08:21:19
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/11/2024 17:45:43
You can't ask how something happens without concluding that the thing happens.
A conclusion is
Quote
a judgment or decision reached by reasoning.

the necessary consequence of two or more propositions taken as premises
You are confused between conclusion and proposition.
You are muddling the question of "does this happen?" with the question of "how does this happen?".

The second only makes sense if you already concluded  that the answer to the first is yes.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1144 on: 05/12/2024 13:45:58 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/11/2024 13:50:58
You are muddling the question of "does this happen?" with the question of "how does this happen?".

The second only makes sense if you already concluded  that the answer to the first is yes.
In mathematics, there's an example for this kind of argumentation.
The question is : is there an infinite number of prime?
The first step is to assume that there is a finite number of prime.
And then describe its implications. By showing that some of those implications contradict each other, we conclude that the assumption is false.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1145 on: 05/12/2024 21:08:29 »
Yes, but that's not what you were doing.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1146 on: 06/12/2024 11:29:23 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/12/2024 21:08:29
Yes, but that's not what you were doing.
Do you think the system will not deplete its energy?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1147 on: 06/12/2024 11:55:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/11/2024 11:06:18
Thermal motion is the displacement of particles within[ a body relative to each other and (in the "one particle " case, or) the boundaries of the body.  Gross motion is the displacement of the entire body relative to other bodies.
How about a gas in a container vibrating when a sound wave is passing by? Will it be the same with liquid or solid?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1148 on: 06/12/2024 12:40:36 »
You can indeed heat things by shaking them. If the gas or liquid has nonzero viscosity, some of the kinetic energy of shaking the walls is transferred to the fluid. Friction heating of a solid is the same thing - we routinely use ultrasonic welding for plastics.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1149 on: 07/12/2024 13:49:45 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 06/12/2024 12:40:36
You can indeed heat things by shaking them. If the gas or liquid has nonzero viscosity, some of the kinetic energy of shaking the walls is transferred to the fluid. Friction heating of a solid is the same thing - we routinely use ultrasonic welding for plastics.
Is the vibration classified as thermal energy?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1150 on: 07/12/2024 16:19:40 »
The result of vibration is thermal energy.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1151 on: 10/12/2024 23:43:59 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 07/12/2024 16:19:40
The result of vibration is thermal energy.
Before it's converted into thermal energy, vibration wasn't thermal initially.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1152 on: 11/12/2024 00:35:42 »
How very true. And before you applied the brakes, the car had kinetic energy, which turned into heat in the brake discs or electrical energy via the regen system. So what?
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1153 on: 12/12/2024 00:03:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/12/2024 00:35:42
How very true. And before you applied the brakes, the car had kinetic energy, which turned into heat in the brake discs or electrical energy via the regen system. So what?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/11/2024 08:39:46
What's the fundamental difference between gross motion and thermal motion?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1154 on: 12/12/2024 11:00:26 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/12/2024 00:03:23
What's the fundamental difference between gross motion and thermal motion?
Direction.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1155 on: 12/12/2024 15:19:31 »
By the age of 6 months, a dog knows the difference between inside and outside. You can move around inside the car, but after a few miles of gross motion you get out to pee.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1156 on: 12/12/2024 20:39:27 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/12/2024 11:00:26
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/12/2024 00:03:23
What's the fundamental difference between gross motion and thermal motion?
Direction.
What's the direction that makes a motion thermal, and what direction makes it non-thermal?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21150
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1157 on: 12/12/2024 22:51:07 »
Thermal motion is random and uncoordinated, which is why things don't accelerate in a single direction when they get hot - that would be gross motion.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline paul cotter

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2318
  • Activity:
    31.5%
  • Thanked: 260 times
  • forum grump
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1158 on: 13/12/2024 09:35:25 »
If the motion associated with thermal energy was not random we could repeal the second law.
Logged
Did I really say that?
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    91%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1159 on: 13/12/2024 13:51:45 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/12/2024 22:51:07
Thermal motion is random and uncoordinated, which is why things don't accelerate in a single direction when they get hot - that would be gross motion.
How is the randomness measured?
If two identical objects have the same total kinetic energy. The first one has more random motion than the second one. Which one has higher temperature?
If they're let to exchange their kinetic energy, which one will end up with higher kinetic energy?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 56 57 [58] 59 60 ... 66   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.457 seconds with 68 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.