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what is temperature?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1280 on: 17/01/2025 22:14:58 »

Impedance matching in mechanical wave.

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1281 on: 17/01/2025 23:47:37 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/01/2025 21:12:32
These videos show that energy transfer by radiation can be passed through material as well as being absorbed.
Good heavens! Whatever will those crazy scientists discover next? Are air, water and glass transparent? Can x-rays pass through the human body?

Truly it is a privilege to live in the 21st century when, thanks to the miracle of the internet, we can be amazed by what our parents considered to be bloody obvious.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1282 on: 18/01/2025 11:41:43 »
Most of us know that impedance is frequency dependent. Mathematical model for impedance is a complex number. Thermodynamics and black body radiation seem to consider only the real part of this impedance. That's because in those cases, the imaginary part is not significant. They're only special cases from the more general cases where the radiating or radiated bodies are not necessarily black body.

It's understandable that scientific research started with simpler cases. But let's not forget that there are more than what earlier discovery has told us.
« Last Edit: 18/01/2025 12:19:57 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1283 on: 18/01/2025 11:57:20 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 17/01/2025 23:47:37
Good heavens! Whatever will those crazy scientists discover next? Are air, water and glass transparent? Can x-rays pass through the human body?
You seem to forget that water and typical glasses are not transparent in infrared spectrum.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1284 on: 18/01/2025 13:28:00 »
I am well aware of the absorption spectrum of water, as should be anyone with an interest in meterorology and climate change. Unfortunately the makers of infrared heat lamps do not share your profound knowledge!

Transparency does not imply zero attenuation at all frequencies, just usefully low values at important points on the spectrum.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1285 on: 18/01/2025 23:11:20 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 18/01/2025 11:41:43
Most of us know that impedance is frequency dependent. Mathematical model for impedance is a complex number. Thermodynamics and black body radiation seem to consider only the real part of this impedance. That's because in those cases, the imaginary part is not significant. They're only special cases from the more general cases where the radiating or radiated bodies are not necessarily black body.

It's understandable that scientific research started with simpler cases. But let's not forget that there are more than what earlier discovery has told us.
You have that more or less exactly wrong.
The imaginary part of the refractive index relates to absorbing light.(And thus BBR) But  the real part relates to the wavelike properties of the light that carries on or is reflected.

"Light propagation in absorbing materials can be described using a complex-valued refractive index.[2] The imaginary part then handles the attenuation, while the real part accounts for refraction"
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index

Did you consider learning science (rather than just watching YT)?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1286 on: 21/01/2025 14:23:07 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/01/2025 13:28:00
Unfortunately the makers of infrared heat lamps do not share your profound knowledge!
A good absorber is also a good emitter in the same spectrum. That's where infrared heat lamp can optimize it.
But lower frequency radiation should also be considered.
Short video about the importance of grounding your heat lamp.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1287 on: 22/01/2025 09:33:41 »
Why? It's pretty obvious that a conductor carrying a couple of amps at 50 - 60 Hz is going to radiate em. The question is whether that actually matters in the context of all the other current carriers in the  house.

LED lamps obviously emit less because they are DC-powered, but if you obtain that power from the mains, you are probably emitting 100 kHz  from the switch-mode power supply.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1288 on: 22/01/2025 12:14:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/01/2025 14:23:07
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/01/2025 13:28:00
Unfortunately the makers of infrared heat lamps do not share your profound knowledge!
A good absorber is also a good emitter in the same spectrum. That's where infrared heat lamp can optimize it.
But lower frequency radiation should also be considered.
Short video about the importance of grounding your heat lamp.
What "point" are you trying to make here?
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1289 on: 22/01/2025 14:31:29 »
That is absolutely ridiculous, EMF from a filament lamp. Whatever minimal 50/60hz EMF the lamp produces would not be affected at all by any earthing(grounding) protocol unless the lamp was encased in metal, which would render it useless. Where the hell do these infantile videos come from?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1290 on: 22/01/2025 15:39:13 »
It's perfectly plausible that the cord of a lamp is making a passable antenna to transmit some RF noise from the mains and the earth cord (or the design of the lamp with more metalwork) is attenuating that.

And incandescent lamp is basically a coil of wire, it's going to generate a magnetic field when you use it.

The big question is...
Who cares?
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1291 on: 22/01/2025 17:47:27 »
The two conductors would be carrying equal and opposite currents which at that low frequency would lead to effective cancellation with the earth(ground) wire performing no function in the absence of a fault. What minute amount of radiation results could be eliminated by a screened feed cable. As you say, who cares?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1292 on: 23/01/2025 14:16:44 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/01/2025 23:11:20
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 18/01/2025 11:41:43
Most of us know that impedance is frequency dependent. Mathematical model for impedance is a complex number. Thermodynamics and black body radiation seem to consider only the real part of this impedance. That's because in those cases, the imaginary part is not significant. They're only special cases from the more general cases where the radiating or radiated bodies are not necessarily black body.

It's understandable that scientific research started with simpler cases. But let's not forget that there are more than what earlier discovery has told us.
You have that more or less exactly wrong.
The imaginary part of the refractive index relates to absorbing light.(And thus BBR) But  the real part relates to the wavelike properties of the light that carries on or is reflected.

"Light propagation in absorbing materials can be described using a complex-valued refractive index.[2] The imaginary part then handles the attenuation, while the real part accounts for refraction"
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index

Did you consider learning science (rather than just watching YT)?
What makes you fail to distinguish between impedance and refractive index?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1293 on: 23/01/2025 15:16:58 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/01/2025 14:16:44
What makes you fail to distinguish between impedance and refractive index?
The fairly close relationship between them.
The impedance is sqrt(  permeability /permittivity).

And (for non magnetic materials) the dielectric constant is the square of the refractive index.

Light reflected from a window is an impedance mismatch effect.

Were you aware of this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clausius%E2%80%93Mossotti_relation
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1294 on: 23/01/2025 22:40:18 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/01/2025 09:33:41
Why? It's pretty obvious that a conductor carrying a couple of amps at 50 - 60 Hz is going to radiate em. The question is whether that actually matters in the context of all the other current carriers in the  house.
It depends on the shape of the conductors, whether it will act like an antenna, or more like a Faraday cage.


Quote
LED lamps obviously emit less because they are DC-powered, but if you obtain that power from the mains, you are probably emitting 100 kHz  from the switch-mode power supply.
That oscillation can be radiated to its surroundings. It can affect the temperature measurement of some types of thermometers, especially the electronic ones.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1295 on: 23/01/2025 23:55:43 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/01/2025 15:16:58
Were you aware of this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clausius%E2%80%93Mossotti_relation
Not the exact formula. But my experiments with microwave and metamaterials suggest that refractive index depends on the unit density of metamaterial and polarizability of the metamaterial unit.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1296 on: 24/01/2025 13:09:47 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/01/2025 22:40:18
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/01/2025 09:33:41
Why? It's pretty obvious that a conductor carrying a couple of amps at 50 - 60 Hz is going to radiate em. The question is whether that actually matters in the context of all the other current carriers in the  house.
It depends on the shape of the conductors, whether it will act like an antenna, or more like a Faraday cage.


Quote
LED lamps obviously emit less because they are DC-powered, but if you obtain that power from the mains, you are probably emitting 100 kHz  from the switch-mode power supply.
That oscillation can be radiated to its surroundings. It can affect the temperature measurement of some types of thermometers, especially the electronic ones.
Why do you keep stating the obvious?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1297 on: 26/01/2025 04:35:10 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/01/2025 13:09:47
Why do you keep stating the obvious?
Because there are someone who keep overlooking it.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1298 on: 27/01/2025 00:02:23 »
Are you saying we shouldn't ignore small effects?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1299 on: 27/01/2025 13:58:27 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/01/2025 00:02:23
Are you saying we shouldn't ignore small effects?
We won't know if the effects were small until they are measured, or at least calculated.
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