[acsinuk]

Some good news on the radio this morning is that a laboratory testing can now be done instantly and there is no delay in getting the results provided there are several medical technicians available to keep feeding the samples into the machine.
So if we put similar machines into mobile breast scan vehicles and send them to universities or other hot spots we can identify who must isolate and who can return to normal.  The problem with follow up and uncertainty is eliminated.

[ukmicky (OP)]

“There is enough evidence of  COVID reinfection after recovery, that the longterm effectiveness of a vaccine is questionable”

And will therefore if that is the case be with us forever unless herd immunity takes over.

[pensador]

- There are many people who take months to recover from a bout of COVID-19. That will have a long-lasting burden on society and the economy.

By "flattening the curve", we are allowing more time to develop and test improved treatments, so that those who are infected are more likely to recover, and to face fewer long-term health impacts.

Like everything, there is a tradeoff between the economic & health impacts of different approaches.
- Different countries will take different approaches
- At the end, we may be able to look back and see which ones were more effective
- In the end, it comes back to "how much is a life worth?" (and some will ask "how much is an old life worth?")

What cost the Pandemic? Global Recession?

Which generation is going to pay for the borrowing to artificially support stock markets?

Which generation has the most to lose from the Pandemic?

Stock Market collapse caused by recession means many pensions are lost.

Lock down means no new social relationships, sex is a massive motivator for the young.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/16/federal-deficit-triples-429911

Should the younger generation be forced to stop enjoying their lives, to protect the elderly indefinitely who are inevitably destined to die in the near future of one cause or another > elderly those over 45 

[Bored chemist]

It's odd; if you call it "herd immunity" it doesn't sound too bad.
If you call it " all the susceptible people dying" that rather brings into focus what it means.

I wonder if there's a correlation between support for herd immunity and support for eugenics; they are much the same process.

[evan_au]

Which generation has the most to lose from the Pandemic?

1. The generation that dies from it.
2. Next is the generation that suffers long-term disability from it
3. Those who suffer loss of income
         - the government can help here, to prevent food riots;
        - Juvenal (in Rome) described  pacifying the population with "bread and circuses"
        - The modern equivalent is support payments and Netflix
4. Those who have to pay off the debts of a previous generation

There are undoubtedly many marginal businesses and occupations that are based on outdated business models and artificial scarcity; these will be shaken up severely. A pandemic is reason to think about what really matters, and (I expect) will result in a much more efficient economy in the future.
- It has been a time to recruit the brains of the world to a single task
- The only other time this happens is in a war, which results in wholesale destruction of lives, infrastructure and economy
- After the second World War, government-dictated rationing continued for about 10 years in the UK
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Later

> elderly those over 45

My mother-in-law talked about the "elderly people" in the retirement village where she is living... and she was already over 90 years old.

Elderly is relative, ie anyone older than you!

I understand that when the pandemic came down hard in Northern Italy, respirators were in such short supply that they were denied to everyone over 40. Would you have qualified for a respirator?

[Petrochemicals]

There is enough evidence of  COVID reinfection after recovery, that the longterm effectiveness of a vaccine is questionable.

There has been one confirmed case which hit the headlines in October, other reports such as South Korea were just residual infections.

[alancalverd]

“There is enough evidence of  COVID reinfection after recovery, that the longterm effectiveness of a vaccine is questionable”

And will therefore if that is the case be with us forever unless herd immunity takes over.

Yes and no. We do not have herd immunity to smallpox: we eliminated it. We do not have herd immunity to ebola, typhoid, leprosy, HIV, cholera, bubonic plague, polio....... we immunise and/or prevent their spread by quarantine. For the time being, the only weapon we have against COVID is quarantine, but effective quarantine requires competent government action, not  posturing politicians making excuses. 

[syhprum]

HIV is an interesting case amongst chimpanzees it seems that they carry a similar virus with no ill effects but who knows how many died to achieve this immunity. 

[Bored chemist]

There is enough evidence of  COVID reinfection after recovery, that the longterm effectiveness of a vaccine is questionable.

There has been one confirmed case which hit the headlines in October, other reports such as South Korea were just residual infections.

While the reinfection rate is so low that a single case makes newspaper headlines, I'm not too worried about it.

[Petrochemicals]

HIV is an interesting case amongst chimpanzees it seems that they carry a similar virus with no ill effects but who knows how many died to achieve this immunity. 

Is that the simian immune virus?

[pensador]

My mother-in-law talked about the "elderly people" in the retirement village where she is living... and she was already over 90 years old.

Elderly is relative, ie anyone older than you!

I understand that when the pandemic came down hard in Northern Italy, respirators were in such short supply that they were denied to everyone over 40. Would you have qualified for a respirator?

Some people are elderley at 20 years old. The reason I stated over 45 is becuase your chances start going down hill at this age, due to underlying health issues etc.

I dont think I will need a resperator if I get it, I rarily get ill.

[evan_au]

Is that the simian immune virus?

SIV = Simian Immunodeficiency Virus

It is thought to  have crossed over from chimpanzees into humans at least 4 times in the past century, from eating monkey meat.
- Let's face it, eating your relatives is not a good idea!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian_immunodeficiency_virus

[acsinuk]

Just a quick thought.  To stop the NHS filling their ICU with retired people why don't we treat the over 80's in old folks or nursing homes.  They do not have ICU's it is true but they could be supplied with oxygen if the patient has breathing difficulties and only move to hospital as a last resort.

[alancalverd]

Because the last time HM Government moved COVID-infectious patients into old folks' homes, they killed thousands of old folk and their carers  who had no previous infection and made the homes into no-go areas for the residents' families.

Even the idiot in Downing Street realises that was a Bad Idea.

[Bored chemist]

Just a quick thought.  To stop the NHS filling their ICU with retired people why don't we ...

...stop spreading the damned virus!

[Bored chemist]

why don't we treat the over 80's in old folks or nursing homes.  They do not have ICU's

Well,

why don't we treat the over 80's in old folks or nursing homes.   

Because

They do not have ICU's

[alancalverd]

Just a quick thought.  To stop the NHS filling their ICU with retired people why don't we ...

...stop spreading the damned virus!

Because that would require Dominic Cummings' puppet to admit that his master was wrong and those bloody knowall scientists were right, just like they were about ebola and the Black Death. 

[evan_au]

admit .... those bloody knowall scientists were right

Meanwhile, across the pond, Donald Trump criticised "Fauci and all these idiots"
- Dr Fauci encourages people to wear masks and employ social distancing
- Donald Trump holds large election rallies with no social distancing and ridicules mask-wearing

See: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-making-decisions-about-covid-19-dr-fauci-says-stay-away-from-the-politics-2020-10-19

[Colin2B]

To stop the NHS filling their ICU with retired people .....

Have they reduced the retirement age??
Recent comment from NHS about falling death rate indicated 2 changes, one in treatment which is improving due to experience, second due to the majority of admissions now being 30-50 yr olds.

[alancalverd]

All the more reason to get rid of those pesky pensioners who think that having paid taxes all their lives, they are entitiled to some sort of medical treatment when they get sick. Bloody cheek. Survival of the fittest demands that we kill everyone under 20 or over 40, for the sake of The Economy.