[RD]

there's no argument about tuning

I'm willing to bet that there is ...

https://youtu.be/-penQWPHJzI?t=70

[alancalverd]

So, you are happy to deliver a piano across Cambridge for tuning, in spite of the fact that the return journey will detune it, rather than accept that, maybe, piano tuners need to go to their place of work.

I refer the hon gentto the statement I made a few posts above:

Apart from said professions, I can't think of anyone else who necessarily lives more than walking or cycling distance from his place of work.

I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.

See above. I don't recall Everest sherpas taking the train to work every day. If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide, my first choice would be someone who lives close enough to the mountain to be familiar with its microclimate and seasonal vegetation 24/7/365. Any fool can press on regardless but an expert knows when not to  (I was given that nugget of wisdom by a surgeon, who did indeed cycle to work).

[alancalverd]

Squiggly frets? The sound of a hangover!

[Bored chemist]

So, you are happy to deliver a piano across Cambridge for tuning, in spite of the fact that the return journey will detune it, rather than accept that, maybe, piano tuners need to go to their place of work.

I refer the hon gentto the statement I made a few posts above:

Apart from said professions, I can't think of anyone else who necessarily lives more than walking or cycling distance from his place of work.

I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.

See above. I don't recall Everest sherpas taking the train to work every day. If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide, my first choice would be someone who lives close enough to the mountain to be familiar with its microclimate and seasonal vegetation 24/7/365. Any fool can press on regardless but an expert knows when not to  (I was given that nugget of wisdom by a surgeon, who did indeed cycle to work).

So, In Alan World, Sir Chris Bonington should have worked from home... well, it's an idea...

[acsinuk (OP)]

We are digressing again.  We must be more environmentally friendly next year by admitting that most people will be working from home and not using public transport necessarily on a daily rush hour basis.
 We need mini buses not double-deckers. Small 2 carriage lightweight tube trains.  Minimise, Economise and protect our environment please. 

[alancalverd]

The energy required to make a road vehicle is about the same as it will consume in 5 years' use, so if you replace 9,000 London double deckers, plus all those in Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh.....with new buses, you will contribute massively to global meltdown, mass starvation, or whatever gets folk excited this week.

The energy required to move a tube train is principally determined by its cross-sectional area. Length only contributes significantly to drag above about 100 mph in open air and 40 mph in a tunnel. London trains don't go that fast.

If you halve the height of a bus or the length of a train you will double the passenger density and thus increase the infection rate by a factor of 4.

Lightweight commuter trains (Sprinters) have been a bit of a disaster and are gradually being replaced by something more comfortable and aerodynamic, but replacing steel with aluminum increases the energy cost of construction by a factor of 4.

Sometimes the best way to protect the environment (an in this case, public health)  is to do nothing.

[alancalverd]

So, In Alan World, Sir Chris Bonington should have worked from home... well, it's an idea...

You said guide, not expedition leader. I'm sure that a sensible chap like CB always consults the locals before setting off.

[Bored chemist]

You said guide,

No
I said mountaineer

I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.

You tried to make a straw man point by saying "guide".

If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide,

According to the wiki page about him, Bonnington has earned a living throughout his life, solely by climbing big rocks and writing about it.
In the real world, he couldn't have done that by staying at home.
So could you at least accept that there are more than 2 entries on the list of jobs where you have to go to the work, rather than vice versa?

[Bored chemist]

The energy required to make a road vehicle is about the same as it will consume in 5 years' use, so if you replace 9,000 London double deckers, plus all those in Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh.....with new buses, you will contribute massively to global meltdown, mass starvation, or whatever gets folk excited this week.

But that use of energy and materials will be offset because fewer people will buy cars ... that's a large part of the point.

[alancalverd]

What has happened so far was an early surge in the used car market, with people buying second cars for shopping, followed by a run on camper vans as preferable to hotels for summer breaks, then a slowdown in new car sales because folk are travellng less on business.

I'd rather travel on a 60-seat double-deck bus with 10 other passengers spread out, as the local park'n'ride service has operated since March, than with the same random bunch of citizens (there aren't many places in the world where at least one of them has a Nobel, FRS or Fields medal, but the virus isn't fussy) crammed into a 12-seat minibus.     

[acsinuk (OP)]

Seriously though, we need to minimise the amount of fuel we use whilst moving around.  In the 1960's Italy claimed that scooters were a cheaper way of getting from A to B than having to repair the wear on your shoes.
Taking this example to the limit, say you want to do a 6 hour job 80 miles away.. Trains fare cost about £35 off peak.
Cost on scooter at 80mpg is 10 litres of fuel £ 12.50.  If you walked there the cost of 3 overnight stays would have to be included but if you went by horse you could probable save one night B&B but feeding the horse could be trying. Same will apply if you pedal bike it.  So Vespa wins.  Even better, why not go on an electric scooter??

[alancalverd]

Horse is not a good idea. A horse standing in a field and doing no work,  produces as much carbon dioxide in a year as a small car travelling 8000 miles. The poo makes great garden fertiliser, though.

Scooter is great unless you want to carry your tools and materials to the job.

I would really like a tuk-tuk, if I can find a road-legal version. In my youth a lot of deliveries were done by motor tricycle, essentially an old military motorbike with a cabin. Invented here, and now the basic taxi and workman's van throughout Asia. Time for a revival.

[acsinuk (OP)]

I think we all agree that small low range electric city cars with a motorway hybrid option are the most environmentally friendly way for personal travel if reasonably priced public transport is not convenient option.
SUV's are not recommended for city use but for holidays are just fine.

[Bored chemist]

SUV's are not recommended for city use but for holidays are just fine.

Having a vehicle all year, that you only use for holidays, is remarkably wasteful.
Why are you saying it's just fine?
Do you like getting laughed at?

[alancalverd]

Wasteful of what?

Her Majesty's Gold State Coach is only used about 4 times per year. It was built in 1760, has probably covered 20,000 miles to date and will probably last another 300 years. Seems like a good investment of £7,000.

Reminds me of the builder quoting work for an Oxford college. He asked "Why do you want oak doors with brass hinges?" to which the estate manager replied "So in 400 years' time we will still have oak doors with brass hinges." 

You surely wouldn't attend Glyndebourne or Ascot in your city car, BC? And even with the Congestion Charge keeping the hoi polloi out of Kensington, doesn't your driver find it difficult to park the Bentley outside Harrods? 

[Bored chemist]

Seems like a good investment of £7,000.

Given what compound inflation has done to £7000, that's lousy value.
What would the taxi fares have been?

[alancalverd]

Lord Rothschild used a London taxi for his personal transport. Asked why his chauffeur recommended it, he said "Because it can turn on a sixpence, whatever that is." 

Seriously, would you hail a taxi knowing that Harry, Andrew or Donald might have sat in it? 

[evan_au]

In my youth a lot of deliveries were done by motor tricycle

Only Mr Bean ran it off the road...

And Jeremy Clarkson tries to improve it...