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  4. Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
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Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« on: 27/11/2020 13:50:53 »
I did random Google search to collect materials for my planned experiments using radio wave. Then I bumped into this interesting article.
Trouble with Maxwell’s Electromagnetic Theory: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
by Ionel DINU, M.Sc., a Physics Teacher
https://vixra.org/pdf/1206.0083v8.pdf
Quote
Abstract
The purpose of this article is to point out that Maxwell’s electromagnetic theory,
believed by the majority of scientists a fundamental theory of physics, is in fact built
on an unsupported assumption and on a faulty method of theoretical investigation.
The result is that the whole theory cannot be considered reliable, nor its conclusions
accurate descriptions of reality. In this work it is called into question whether radio
waves (and light) travelling in vacuum, are indeed composed of mutually inducing
electric and magnetic fields.

Introduction
This study is addressed to that small percent of students and researchers who suspect
that there is something wrong with the way in which we understand nowadays how radio
waves are generated and how they propagate in space.
I know that there is always a feeling of distrust amongst students when university
professors obtain the equation of a wave from the four Maxwell’s equations. I felt that
myself as a student and I have seen it again in the open courses made available on the
Internet by prestigious universities of the world. Students ask pertinent questions but the
professor fails to address the issue.
[See
min. 0:35:00].
Quote
Summary
 In conclusion, in this article it was shown that Maxwell’s theory of electromagnetic
waves contains an unfounded assumption, a faulty method of theoretical investigation and
makes a prediction that is contrary to observations.
These are:
(i) the unfounded assumption that a changing magnetic field B creates (induces) an
electric field E (a.k.a. Faraday’s law of electromagnetic induction). In fact, a changing
magnetic field B is observed to produce an electric current J, not an electric field E and
there is a great difference between an electric current J and an electric field E.
(ii) the assumption that a changing electric field E creates (induces) a magnetic field B
(a.k.a. Maxwell’s correction to Ampere’s Law). This was derived by Maxwell through a
faulty method of theoretical investigation, no such effect was known in Maxwell’s time
and no experiment has been made since then that proves this assumption.
(iii) the prediction that radio waves and light are composed of entangled electric and
magnetic waves that create (induce) one another in vacuum. No experiment revealed that
radio waves and light have a structure containing electric and magnetic fields.
Although it seemed an easy and straightforward matter to accomplish, Faraday failed
in his attempt to change the plane of polarization of light travelling in vacuum by the
application of strong electric and magnetic fields. Only when the polarized beam of light
passed through glass of great density could this be accomplished, and even then by the
application of a magnetic field only.
Furthermore, Faraday initially applied the magnetic field perpendicular to the ray,
believing that this would change the direction of the plane of polarization. Not obtaining
any positive result, he then placed the magnetic field parallel to the direction of the ray,
and he finally obtained the change he was looking for. But then how can this result be
reconciled with the theory in which light is considered to be composed of two transverse
magnetic and electric fields? It does not seem that the magnetic field applied by Faraday
and the magnetic field of the light-ray vibrating perpendicular to it give a resultant in a
different plane.
What do you think is wrong with his argumentation? Do you agree with him instead?
What kind of experiments can determine which one is the more accurate model to physical reality?
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #1 on: 30/11/2020 10:00:14 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/11/2020 13:50:53
(iii) the prediction that radio waves and light are composed of entangled electric and
magnetic waves that create (induce) one another in vacuum. No experiment revealed that
radio waves and light have a structure containing electric and magnetic fields.
Although it seemed an easy and straightforward matter to accomplish, Faraday failed
in his attempt to change the plane of polarization of light travelling in vacuum by the
application of strong electric and magnetic fields. Only when the polarized beam of light
passed through glass of great density could this be accomplished, and even then by the
application of a magnetic field only.
Furthermore, Faraday initially applied the magnetic field perpendicular to the ray,
believing that this would change the direction of the plane of polarization. Not obtaining
any positive result, he then placed the magnetic field parallel to the direction of the ray,
and he finally obtained the change he was looking for.
But then how can this result be
reconciled with the theory in which light is considered to be composed of two transverse
magnetic and electric fields? It does not seem that the magnetic field applied by Faraday
and the magnetic field of the light-ray vibrating perpendicular to it give a resultant in a
different plane.
I specifically find the result above interesting. Here is a video demonstrating the optical Faraday effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_effect
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #2 on: 05/12/2020 04:04:41 »
Here is another video explaining electromagnetic wave in a simple and easy way. Interestingly, it doesn't involve magnetic induction, hence no mutually inducing electric and magnetic field.
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #3 on: 20/12/2020 12:38:39 »
the video explains how antenna works.
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #4 on: 21/12/2020 09:44:36 »
The book "Electrodynamics from Ampere to Einstein" by Olivier Darrigol tells a comprehensive history of electromagnetic theory. Here is the preface.
Quote
Electrodynamics, as Ampere defined it in the early 1820s, is the science of the forces
exerted by electricity in motion.' It emerged as an important field of study soon after
Oersted's discovery of electromagnetism. The present book follows the evolution of
the subject from its beginnings to Einstein's theory of relativity. This is not, however.
a purely lllternal history. Proper understanding of some central episodes requires
excursions into other domains of physics. and even beyond physics: into chemistry
in Faraday's case. engineering in Thomson's. and physiology in Helmholtz's. Conversely,
the history of electrodynamics illuminates the general history of nineteenth
century phySICS and its relations with other disciplines.
In 1910. Edmund Whittaker published the first volume of his great History of
Aether and Electricity, which includes a remarkably clear account of nineteenth
century electrodynamic theories. Whittaker is most insightful when dealing with the
British tradition in which he himself was trained. By contrast. his descriptions of
continental electrodynamics are often modernized; pay little attention to broader
methodological issues; and largely ignore experimental activity. These flaws have
been partly corrected by more recent historiography on the subject, yet the newer
studies tend to be local and confined to one actor. to a narrow period of time, or to
a given tradition.
There is then clearly a need for an up-ta-date synthetic history of electrodynamICS.
Studies limited to a short time penod inevitably lose sight oflong-term resources
and constraints that shape the physicists' activity. This is particularly true when the
time span of the historical account is shorter than the memory of the main actors.
For example. the available histories of relativity generally ignore crucial aspects of
nineteenth century electrodynamics of which Einstein was himself aware. Longerterm
history can correct such defects. It also helps perceive large-scale changes in
methods and disciplinary boundaries. For example, the present study documents the
increasing quantification of physics. the evolution of the relationship between theoretical
and expenmental practices, and the merging of theoretical optics and electromagnetism.
Taking a bird's eye view. we can better appreciate the continuities,
variations, and interplay of various activities and traditions.
Quote
The sheer number and variety of nineteenth century publications on electrodynamics
makes impossible an exhaustive history of the kind given in John Heilbron's
admirable Electricity in the 17th and 18th Centuries. To narrow my task, I have
confined myself to works on the forefront of fundamental electrodynamics. I have
focused on concept formation and methodological innovation, and have neglected
the more conservative, derivative, or isolated contributions. In particular, I have left
aside technological applications of electricity, unless there was a feedback effect on
the conceptual and instrumental equipment of fundamental electrodynamics. As a
consequence of these choices, the present work ascribes a prominent role to the few
actors who transformed the foundations of electrodynamics by their experimental,
conceptual, and institutional efforts. I have nonetheless described the spread and stabilization
of the main innovations, with a special emphasis on those which had
broader significance in the evolution of nineteenth century physics.
Three epistemological themes underly my narrative. The first is the relation
between experimental and theoretical practice. Until the 1860s, the chief electrodynamicists
were as much experimenters as they were theorists. Their conceptual innovations
depended on harmonious blends of experimental and theoretical procedures.
In order to show how the kind of blend depended on local or individual circumstances,
I have adopted a comparative approach, opposing for instance Faraday to
Ampere, or Weber to Neumann. The second theme is electrodynamics as a testing
ground for various forms of mechanical reductionism. Essential innovations in electrodynamic
theory depended on attempted reductions to mechanical systems.
Conversely, the mechanistic ideal evolved according to the specific needs of electrodynamics.
The third theme is the communication between different traditions.
A well-known characteristic of the history of electrodynamics is the long coexistence
of field-based and distance-action approaches. Less known are the various
strategies that physicists of these two traditions developed in order to communicate
wIth one another. For example, Maxwell distinguished a more phenomenological
level of electrodynamic theory that could be shared by continental physicists; and
Helmholtz reinterpreted Maxwell's theory in terms of the continental concept of
polarization.
This thematic structuring reveals new aspects of the history of electrodynamics,
and of nineteenth century physics more generally. First, it is shown that the
coordination of experimental and theoretical practice by the same actor involved
methodological principles that guided both experiment and theory. For example,
Faraday followed a principle of contiguity according to which both the exploration
and the representation of phenomena were about 'placing facts closely together';
Ampere based both his theory and his experiments on the decomposition of electrodynamic
systems into CUlTent elements. When such transverse principles operate,
historians can no longer separate the experimental and theoretical activities of a
given actor; and philosophers can no longer regard one activity as simply controlling
the other.'
Quote
The theme of mechanical reductionism would bring little historiographical
novelty if mechanical reduction was regarded as a pure ideal referring to the actors'
metaphysics. In this book, however, the emphasis is on the illustrative or algorithmIC
procedures that concretize this ideal. These procedures are more variable, more
context-dependent, and less personal than the idealistic view would imply. Proponents
of the mechanical world-view, like Thomson, Maxwell, and Helmholtz,
adjusted their reductionist practices according to the evolving needs of theory construction
and communication. Later opponents of the mechanistic ideal questioned
not only its Kantian underpinning, but also its effectiveness for building and expressing
theories.
My third theme, the communication between different traditions, is the most likely
to disturb historiographical and epistemological habits. Previous studies of nineteenth
century physics have oscillated between two extremes. In the more traditional studies,
differences between traditions are meant to be decorative, and communication
unproblematic. In the more recent, post-Kuhnian, studies, differences between traditions
are often taken to be so radical that communication is nearly impossible among
them; knowledge becomes essentially local. An intermediate picture emerges from
the present study. Several pairs of traditions are identified (British/Continental,
WeberianlNeumannian, Thomsonian/Maxwellian, etc.) in which deep differences
existed at various levels, ranging from ontological commitments to socioinstitutional,
experimental, and theoretical practices. Yet representatives of these
antagonistic traditions communicated in ways that permitted comparisons, adaptatIOns,
and cross-fertilizations. In fact, the most creative actors desired and planned
this mteraction. The variety of communication devices described in this study should
mform discussions of the objectifying and uniformizing goals of science.
The main text of this book is organized as follows. Chapter 1 recounts Ampere's
and Faraday's reactions to Oersted's discovery of electromagnetism in the 1820s,
and how they founded a new science of electrodynamics. Chapter 2 shows how in
the 1840s two important research traditions emerged in Germany from quantitative
studies of magnetism and electrodynamics, the leaders being Gauss and Weber on
the one hand, and Neumann and Kirchhoff on the other. Chapter 3 is devoted to two
systematic ways of introducing entities in the space between electric and magnetic
sources: Faraday's in the 1830/40s and William Thomson's in the 1840s. Chapter
4 describes the formation of Maxwell's theory until the Treatise of 1873, while
Chapter 5 recounts the British elaborations of this theory in the 1880s. Chapter 6
shows how Helmholtz provided a general framework for comparing the predictions
of the existing theories of electrodynamics; how Hertz, working in this framework,
produced and detected electromagnetic waves; and how German physicists then read
Maxwell. Chapters 7 and 8 recount two ways in which ions or electrons were injected
into Maxwell's theory: in connection with empirical studies of electric conduction
through solutions and gases, and in connection with the difficulties of electromagnetic
optics. Lastly, Chapter 9 deals with various approaches to the electrodynamics
of moving bodies at the beginning of the twentieth century, including Einstein's
relativity theory.
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #5 on: 21/12/2020 09:51:29 »
Quote
In the more theoretical sections, I show how in some cases the available mathematics
constrained the conceptual developments, while in some others new physical
pictures caIIed for new mathematics. In the main text, however, I have kept
forrr.alism to a minimum. A series of appendices provide more of the mathematical
apparatus. There I freely use anachronistic methods and notations, because my only
point is to show briefly the consistency, completeness, and interrelations of the corresponding
theories. In the main text, I have carefully respected the original styles
of demonstration. My only liberty has been to replace Cartesian coordinate notation
with modern vector notation, for the latter can be to a large extent regarded as an
abbreviation of the former. Sections devoted to the origins of the vector notation
should correct any resulting misconception.
My study of the vast primary literature over the past few years has been greatly
aided by the abundance and exceIIence of more focused histories of electrodynamics.
On Ampere, I have often followed Christine BlondeI's elegant, authoritative
account. On Faraday, lowe much to Friedrich Steinle's deep and systematic studies,
and to earlier works by Pearce Williams, David Gooding, and Manuel Donce!. On
Gauss and Weber, and their geomagnetic program, my guides have been Christa
Jungnickel and Russel McCormmach. Their monumental history of the rise of theoretical
physics in Germany has provided much of the background for the German
side of my story. On Franz Neumann, both his experimental style and his institutional
role, I have relied on Kathryn Olesko's impressively thorough study. On
William Thomson (Lord Kelvin), lowe much to the important biography by Crosbie
Smith and Norton Wise. These scholars highlight the role of Thomson as a cultural
mediator and bring out major shifts of British physics in the nineteenth century. On
MaxweII, my main sources have been Peter Harman's exceIIent edition of his letters
and papers, Norton Wise's incisive commentary of the earliest steps to field theory,
Daniel Siegel's lucid account of the vortex model, and the descriptions that Jed
Buchwald and Peter Harman provide of the basic concepts and program of the Treatise.
On the spread and evolution of MaxweII's theory in Britain, I have used Bruce
Hunt's admirably rich and well-written book, as well as Buchwald's earlier insights
into the phenomenological and dynamical aspects of MaxweIIianism. On the crucial
role of the Faraday effect through the history of British field theory, I have frequently
referred to Ole Knudsen's illuminating study. On Helmholtz's and Hertz's physics,
I profited greatly from Buchwald's latest book, with its acute scrutiny of laboratory
work and the connections he reveals between experimental and theoretical styles.
For some aspects of the history of conduction in gases, I have relied on valuable
studies by John Heilbron, Isobel Falconer, Stuart Feffer, and BenOit Lelong. On electron
theories, my main sources have been again Buchwald and Hunt, but also the
earlier, insightful studies by Hirosige Tetu. To which I must add, for the later evolution
of the electrodynamics of moving bodies, the competer.t edition of Einstein's
papers under John StacheI's lead (for the two first volumes), and the authoritative
studies by Gerald Holton, Arthur Miller, Michel Paty, and Jiirgen Renn.
No matter how rich these sources and how strong my efforts to synthetize and
complement them, I do not pretend to have closed a chapter of the history of science.
Quote
On the contrary, I hope to stimulate further studies and reflections beyond the selfimposed
limitations of my own work and into the gaps of which I am still unconscious.
The lofty summits of the history of electrodynamics will no doubt attract
new climbers. I shall be happy if I have marked out a few convenient trails in this
magnificent scenery.
The research on which this book is based required access to well-equipped institutes,
libraries, and archives. I was fortunate to belong to the REHSEIS group of the
Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique and to receive the warm support and
competent advice of its director, Michel Paty. Most of my reading and writing was
done in wonderful Berkeley, thanks to John Heilbron's and Roger Hahn's hospitality
at the Office for History of Science and Technology. Even after his retirement
from Berkeley, John's help and advice have been instrumental in bringing this
project to completion. I also remember a fruitful year spent at UCLA, in the inspiring
company of Mario Biagioli. Most recently, I have benefitted from the exceptional
facilities of the Max Planck Institut fUr Wissenschaftsgeschichte in Berlin,
thanks to Jiirgen Renn's regard for in my work.
When I came to the history of electrodynamics, I contacted Jed Buchwald, to
whose penetrating studies lowed much of my interest in this subject. At every stage
of my project, he offered generously of his time to discuss historical puzzles and to
help sharpen my results and methods. Another leading historian of electrodynamics,
Bruce Hunt, has patiently read the whole manuscript of this book and provided much
incisive commentary. This exchange has been exceptionally fruitful and pleasurable.
I have also received valuable suggestions from two anonymous reviewers, and technical
advice from a prominent physicist, Jean-Michel Raimond. My highly competent
editor at Oxford University Press, Sonke Adlung, is partly responsible for these
fruitful exchanges.
Some friends and scholars have personally contributed to improve individual
chapters of this book. Friedrich Steinle offered valuable comments on the first
chapter. Matthias Dorries clarified obscurities of the second. Fran<;oise Balibar
helped me reshape the three first chapters. Norton Wise discussed with me some
mysterious aspects of Thomson's fluid analogies in Chapter 3. Bruce Hunt helped
me refine some of the arguments in Chapters 4 and 5. Andy Warwick showed me a
chapter of his forthcoming book that illuminates the reception of Maxwell's theory
in Cambridge. Jed Buchwald recommended alterations in Chapter 6. Edward
Jurkowitz suggested the characterization of Helmholtz's approach in terms of frameworks.
He and Jordi Cat helped me formulate the arguments of Chapter 9.
To these colleagues and friends, I express my deepest gratitude, and my apologies
for having sometimes failed to follow their suggestions. I am of course responsible
for any remaining imperfections.
Paris
May 1999
O.D.

When we talk about classical electromagnetic theory, most of us only think about Maxwell's theory. But there were many alternatives had been proposed by scientists throughout 19th century. They are mostly forgotten by current introductory physics textbooks.
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #6 on: 23/12/2020 02:04:54 »
Quote
Weber electrodynamics is an alternative to Maxwell electrodynamics developed by Wilhelm Eduard Weber. In this theory, Coulomb's Law becomes velocity dependent. In mainstream contemporary physics, Maxwell electrodynamics is treated as the uncontroversial foundation of classical electromagnetism, while Weber electrodynamics is generally unknown (or ignored).[1]
Quote
Newton's third law in Maxwell and Weber electrodynamics
In Maxwell electrodynamics, Newton's third law does not hold for particles. Instead, particles exert forces on electromagnetic fields, and fields exert forces on particles, but particles do not directly exert forces on other particles. Therefore, two nearby particles do not always experience equal and opposite forces. Related to this, Maxwell electrodynamics predicts that the laws of conservation of momentum and conservation of angular momentum are valid only if the momentum of particles and the momentum of surrounding electromagnetic fields are taken into account. The total momentum of all particles is not necessarily conserved, because the particles may transfer some of their momentum to electromagnetic fields or vice versa. The well-known phenomenon of radiation pressure proves that electromagnetic waves are indeed able to "push" on matter. See Maxwell stress tensor and Poynting vector for further details.

The Weber force law is quite different: All particles, regardless of size and mass, will exactly follow Newton's third law. Therefore, Weber electrodynamics, unlike Maxwell electrodynamics, has conservation of particle momentum and conservation of particle angular momentum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weber_electrodynamics
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #7 on: 26/12/2020 01:54:01 »
Here is another article arguing that electromagnetic field can exert force to matter, and vice versa, causing an apparent violition of Newton's third law, if we only consider the motions of matter.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1707.04198.pdf
Forces on Fields
Charles T. Sebens
University of California, San Diego
Quote
Abstract
In electromagnetism, as in Newton’s mechanics, action is always equal to
reaction. The force from the electromagnetic field on matter is balanced by an
equal and opposite force from matter on the field. We generally speak only of
forces exerted by the field, not forces exerted upon the field. But, we should not
be hesitant to speak of forces acting on the field. The electromagnetic field closely
resembles a relativistic fluid and responds to forces in the same way. Analyzing
this analogy sheds light on the inertial role played by the field’s mass, the status
of Maxwell’s stress tensor, and the nature of the electromagnetic field.

1 Introduction
Newton’s third law states that whenever one body exerts a force on a second, the second
body exerts an equal and opposite force on the first. The electromagnetic field exerts
forces on matter via the Lorentz force law. I will argue that matter exerts equal and
opposite forces on the field.
Talk of forces on fields is generally resisted as fields seem too insubstantial to be
acted upon by forces. It would be hard to understand how fields could feel forces if they
had neither masses nor accelerations. Fortunately, fields have both. Fields respond to
forces in much the same way that matter does.
Few authors explicitly reject the idea that matter exerts forces on the electromagnetic
field. Instead, the rejection is implied by conspicuous omission. In deriving and
discussing the conservation of momentum, one speaks freely of the force on matter but
only of the rate of change of the momentum of the electromagnetic field (e.g., Cullwick,
1952; Griffiths, 1999, section 8.2; Rohrlich, 2007, section 4.9).
My primary goal in this article is to argue that Newton’s third law holds in the special
relativistic theory of electromagnetism because the force from the electromagnetic field
on matter is balanced by an equal and opposite force from matter on the field. I show
that the field experiences forces by giving a force law for the electromagnetic field using
hydrodynamic equations which describe the flow of the field’s mass (originally studied
by Poincar´e, 1900). In the course of this analysis I clarify the inertial role played by
the field’s mass—it quantifies the resistance the field itself has to being accelerated. I
also point out that Maxwell’s stress tensor is in fact a momentum flux density tensor,
not—as its title would suggest—a stress tensor, and give the true stress tensor for
the electromagnetic field. Finally, I explore the extent of the resemblance between
the electromagnetic field and a relativistic fluid, asking (i) whether we can replace
Maxwell’s equations with fluid equations, (ii) if it is possible to understand the classical
electromagnetic field as composed of photons, and (iii) how we can attribute proper
mass to the field.

2 Apparent Violation of the Third Law
If one takes charged particles to exert electromagnetic forces directly upon one another at
a distance, violations of Newton’s third law are easy to generate. Consider the following
case (Lange, 2002, section 5.2): There are two particles of equal charge initially held
in place (at rest) and separated by a distance r1. Then, one particle is quickly moved
directly towards the other as depicted in figure 1 so that at time t the distance between
the two particles is r2. Because there is a light-speed delay in the way charged particles
interact with one another, the force that each particle feels from the other at t cannot be
calculated just by looking at what’s going on at t. The force on the stationary particle
at t is calculated by looking at the state of the particle that moved at the time when a
light-speed signal from that particle would just reach the stationary particle at t. At this
earlier time, the particle was a distance r1 from where the stationary particle is at t. The
general law describing how the force on one charge depends on the state of another at an
earlier time is complex,1 but in this simple case where both particles are at rest at the
relevant times, the repulsive force that the stationary particle feels at t has magnitude
q˛/r1˛
. Similarly, the force on the particle that moved is calculated by looking at the state
of the stationary particle at a time when the stationary particle was at a distance r2
from where the particle that moved is at t. The repulsive force the particle that moved
feels at t has magnitude q˛/r2˛, opposite but not equal the force on the stationary particle.

As a second example (Griffiths, 1999, section 8.2.1), imagine two particles of equal
charge, both equidistant from the origin and approaching at the same speed. Particle 1
approaches along the x-axis from positive infinity and particle 2 along the y-axis. Both
are guided so that they unerringly follow their straight paths at constant speed. In this
case the electric forces on the two particles are equal and opposite but the magnetic
forces are equal in magnitude but not opposite in direction. The magnetic force on
particle 1 is in the y-direction whereas the magnetic force on 2 is in the x-direction.
According to Griffiths, we should be troubled by this violation because “...the
proof of conservation of momentum rests on the cancellation of internal forces, which
follows from the third law. When you tamper with the third law, you are placing the
conservation of momentum in jeopardy, and there is no principle in physics more sacred
than that.” Griffiths then immediately neutralizes the threat, writing that “Momentum
conservation is rescued in electrodynamics by the realization that the fields themselves
carry momentum.” Feynman et al. (1964, sections 26-2 and 27-6) respond to apparent
violations of the third law in a similar manner. They write that they will leave it to the
reader to worry about whether action is equal to reaction, but point out that momentum
is conserved—provided that the field momentum is included—and seem satisfied with
this resolution of the puzzle.

« Last Edit: 26/12/2020 02:46:42 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #8 on: 26/12/2020 02:41:34 »
But this experiment doesn't show violation of Newton's law. The magnets experience force equal and opposite to the force exerted by the wire, hence conserving linear and angular momentum of the system.
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #9 on: 04/01/2021 03:36:09 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/12/2020 01:54:01
If one takes charged particles to exert electromagnetic forces directly upon one another at
a distance, violations of Newton’s third law are easy to generate. Consider the following
case (Lange, 2002, section 5.2): There are two particles of equal charge initially held
in place (at rest) and separated by a distance r1. Then, one particle is quickly moved
directly towards the other as depicted in figure 1 so that at time t the distance between
the two particles is r2. Because there is a light-speed delay in the way charged particles
interact with one another, the force that each particle feels from the other at t cannot be
calculated just by looking at what’s going on at t. The force on the stationary particle
at t is calculated by looking at the state of the particle that moved at the time when a
light-speed signal from that particle would just reach the stationary particle at t. At this
earlier time, the particle was a distance r1 from where the stationary particle is at t. The
general law describing how the force on one charge depends on the state of another at an
earlier time is complex,1 but in this simple case where both particles are at rest at the
relevant times, the repulsive force that the stationary particle feels at t has magnitude
q˛/r1˛
Let's analyze this seemingly unexpected result of a thought experiment. Can we identify false assumptions that have been made which give the result?
First, the experiment assumes that two charged particles could be held in place (at rest) with nothing to hold them.
Second, it also assumes that a particle could be moved without involving any other mass.
The first assumption can be fixed by making those particles in orbital motion where attracting electric forces equal centripetal forces. But this supposed to generate electromagnetic wave which carry energy out of the system.
The second assumption is obviously false if there is no second particle. It seems like introducing the second particle has obscured that faulty assumption.
« Last Edit: 05/01/2021 08:07:21 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #10 on: 04/01/2021 16:44:38 »
Try this.  Acquire a dual port/channel function generator and a DSO.  Set it up like normal..i.e....a sine into one channel with a telescopic ant.  And a sine,180 out with the first, into the other channel.

This will give you a normal fed dipole.  Tune that signal in with a radio with  BFO and a DSO.

It looks and sounds like a normal radio signal.

Now, put in a positive full wave precision rectified sine into one element and the opposite polarity precision rectified sine into the other element.

Now look and listen to signal.   Do you see any difference?
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #11 on: 04/01/2021 22:08:34 »
Quote from: Hayseed on 04/01/2021 16:44:38
Try this.  Acquire a dual port/channel function generator and a DSO.  Set it up like normal..i.e....a sine into one channel with a telescopic ant.  And a sine,180 out with the first, into the other channel.

This will give you a normal fed dipole.  Tune that signal in with a radio with  BFO and a DSO.

It looks and sounds like a normal radio signal.

Now, put in a positive full wave precision rectified sine into one element and the opposite polarity precision rectified sine into the other element.

Now look and listen to signal.   Do you see any difference?
could you please just show us the experiment?
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #12 on: 05/01/2021 00:55:12 »
We are taught the EM emission alternates.  However an electron only has one pole, and it has no problem with emission. Neither does a one pole proton.

I can not show you the experiment, for I am disabled.   To set this up, a decision has to be made.  And that is, what frequency to use.  The higher the frequency, the more expensive equipment will be needed.  The lower the frequency, the more separation room you will need between generator and radio-scope.  We don't want any near field connection/coupling.

I had a FeelTech FY6600 function generator.  Maybe it was a fluke, but it out-preformed most of it's specs.  I could produce a precision rectified sine up to almost 15 MHz.  Quite amazing......for about 70 bucks, 9-10 years ago.

Siglent SDS1202 DSO-digital storage oscilloscope.  Save scope for next experiment.

Telescopic BNC connector antennas. To connect directly to generator and scope and radio.

Ham radio, all band coverage, CW(BFO) function.

Wire can be added to the antennas for resonance.  The telescopic action can be used to fine tune the element.

The idea here is to first set up a conventional radio link, using a dipole right at the generator output.  No feed lines.

A conventional dipole is excited with 180 degrees out of phase voltage.   In other words, when one element is excited with positive peek......the other element is excited with the negative peek.  So set generator channels for the phase and frequency used.

Set up the conventional radio link with appropriate separation. Note the generator level, the radio S meter level and the tone quality.

Now set generator for a fully positive rectified precision sine into one element and the fully negative precision rectified sine into the other element.  This removes the alternating function of the feed, to the dipole.

Now compare generator level, s meter level and radio tone quality to the first notes taken.





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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #13 on: 05/01/2021 08:04:28 »
Quote from: Hayseed on 05/01/2021 00:55:12
I can not show you the experiment, for I am disabled.   To set this up, a decision has to be made.  And that is, what frequency to use.  The higher the frequency, the more expensive equipment will be needed.  The lower the frequency, the more separation room you will need between generator and radio-scope.  We don't want any near field connection/coupling.
You can upload your video on Youtube and use unique words/sentences as its title. Your video will likely have to compete for priorities in search result, but if your title or keyword is unique enough, it has a good chance to come up. For example, you can find some of my videos in the top lists of Google search even though they haven't got many views. Here are some examples.
Vertically tilted diffraction
Polarization twister
Microwave conjoined twin
Redirecting grid
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Re: Can Fields Induce Other Fields in Vacuum?
« Reply #14 on: 05/01/2021 08:17:47 »
In Euclid's Element, it's mentioned that the simplest geometric element is a point. So I think that any fundamental theory about physical reality should be described as point to point interaction, like Newton's gravitational equation or Coulomb's electrostatic equation. Since it has already proven by many experiments that electromagnetic interactions are not instantaneous and not only determined by static positions of interacting matters, the equation must include some time derivatives of those positions.
Meanwhile, Maxwell's equations were developed based on the assumption that electric charge is a continuous quantity. Electron wasn't discovered yet. It shouldn't be surprising that they seem to diverge from observation when their underlying assumption is no longer close enough to approximate physical reality, such as in very small scales.
« Last Edit: 05/01/2021 08:40:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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