The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 28   Go Down

Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?

  • 553 Replies
  • 203264 Views
  • 3 Tags

0 Members and 45 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #320 on: 18/03/2024 09:04:17 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/03/2024 16:12:30
Traditional search engines like Google prioritize most referred sources.
...like The Bible, Koran, Little Red Book, Shakespeare, Alice in Wonderland, and other frequently-cited sources of utter nonsense.

At best, consensus represents the opinion of the average man. Advances in understanding are made by exceptional people questioning the consensus. Out of 8,000,000,000 people, no more than 18 are deemed worthy of Nobel prizes each year, and if we discount those that don't involve increasing knowledge, we are down to 9. 
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #321 on: 18/03/2024 15:30:09 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/03/2024 09:04:17
At best, consensus represents the opinion of the average man.
That's what democracies depend on. Democratic societies whose constituents are mostly incompetent are less likely to survive. Usually, least competent members of the societies would die out earlier. It would tip the average value upward.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #322 on: 18/03/2024 15:34:14 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/03/2024 09:04:17
Advances in understanding are made by exceptional people questioning the consensus.
There are some types of research gaps.
Quote
In this video, I dive deep into the landscape of academic research. I share insights from my own journey, focusing on the discovery and exploration of research gaps. These gaps, often seen as voids in our understanding, are in fact golden opportunities for innovation and progress. I discuss four distinct types of research gaps that I've encountered, including the personal challenges and triumphs I've experienced in bridging them.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #323 on: 19/03/2024 08:08:33 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/03/2024 09:04:17
At best, consensus represents the opinion of the average man.
Or average researchers.

How To Use Consensus AI - Don?t Get Left Behind

Quote
Embark on a journey to redefine your academic search with Consensus AI, the cutting-edge tool transforming the landscape of research.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 How to use Consensus
00:48 How to Use AI Summary
02:43 How to use Consensus Meter
03:23 How to use Consensus Co Pilot
04:47 How to Filter with Consensus
06:40 Digging Deeper into Consensus
08:41 Consensus on the GPT Store
09:38 Wrapping Up
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #324 on: 19/03/2024 10:51:34 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 18/03/2024 15:30:09
Democratic societies whose constituents are mostly incompetent are less likely to survive.
It is a characteristic of most human societies that we protect and nurture the incompetent and superstitious, and even insist that they have a right to breed and/or disseminate their superstitions. Hence
Quote
Usually, least competent members of the societies would die out earlier.
is no longer a "given"
and
Quote
It would tip the average value upward.
is clearly not the case in, for example, the USA or anywhere that religion or party/tribal loyalty influences the democratic process.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #325 on: 19/03/2024 22:35:55 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 19/03/2024 10:51:34
is clearly not the case in, for example, the USA or anywhere that religion or party/tribal loyalty influences the democratic process.
There might be some exceptions in short terms, for whatever reason. But in the long term the trend is usually maintained.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #326 on: 02/05/2024 09:12:01 »
Quote from: evan_au on 10/12/2020 06:57:33
In atoms, only certain orbitals are permitted (quantization)
- To calculate these orbitals, you need to solve the wave equation for the electron.
- Some of these orbitals are spherical, but others look like a cluster of balloons assembled by a clown. How do you calculate the radius and centripetal motion for these?



The shapes of the first five atomic orbitals are: 1s, 2s, 2px, 2py, and 2pz. The two colors show the phase or sign of the wave function in each region. Each picture is domain coloring of a ψ(x, y, z) function which depends on the coordinates of one electron.


Atomic orbitals of the electron in a hydrogen atom at different energy levels. The probability of finding the electron is given by the color, as shown in the key at upper right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital


These atomic orbitals may not represent position of electrons around the nucleus. For me, it looks more like radiation patterns around antenna.

Figure 4. Normalized 3d radiation pattern for the 1-wavelength dipole antenna.


Figure 5. Normalized 3d radiation pattern for the 1.5-wavelength dipole antenna.
https://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/dipole.php



From chegg.com

Spatially, the patterns extend to infinity, although with quickly dropped magnitude for further distances. While dark regions within finite distances might be interpreted as products of destructive interference.

Unlike in a dipole antenna where the movement of electrons is confined in one dimension, the electrons around atomic nucleus can move in three dimensions.
« Last Edit: 02/05/2024 15:48:23 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #327 on: 02/05/2024 10:17:03 »
Spherical Harmonics
Quote
We describe the possible fundamental vibrations on a sphere in three dimensions by counting, mirroring and rotating nodal lines.
This video ist part of the online course www.quantumreflections.net dealing with quantum physics, produced by the institute for physics education research, M?nster university (Germany)
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #328 on: 02/05/2024 15:38:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/05/2024 09:12:01
Spatially, the patterns extend to infinity, although with quickly dropped magnitude for further distances. While dark regions within finite distances might be interpreted as products of destructive interference.

Unlike in a dipole antenna where the movement of electrons is confined in one dimension, the electrons around atomic nucleus can move in three dimensions.
Based on the radiation patterns that we can measure for various shapes of antenna where we can control the motion of the electrons, we can calculate backwards to infer how electrons should move around the nucleus to produce radiation patterns resembling known atomic orbitals. It will require adequately accurate and precise electrodynamic model.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #329 on: 02/05/2024 16:04:51 »
It's worth noting that Schrodinger himself didn't like Max Born's interpretation of his wave equation for atomic orbitals (after being squared) as probability density of finding electrons in particular region.  One of the objections to the implications of that interpretation is the formation of two or more separated regions in space where electrons can be found, but not between them. It's as if electrons can magically jump from one region with high probability to another regions without having to travel the space between them.
« Last Edit: 02/05/2024 16:07:40 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #330 on: 03/05/2024 09:04:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/05/2024 15:38:59
Based on the radiation patterns that we can measure for various shapes of antenna where we can control the motion of the electrons, we can calculate backwards to infer how electrons should move around the nucleus to produce radiation patterns resembling known atomic orbitals. It will require adequately accurate and precise electrodynamic model.
It is precisely the absence of electromagnetic emission from atoms in equilibrium that put an end to the Bohr atom.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/05/2024 16:04:51
It's as if electrons can magically jump from one region with high probability to another regions without having to travel the space between them.
There's no implication that they magically jump. If you start with a classical model, you probably won't derive a quantum result, but if you start with a quantum and probabilistic model, you can usefully predict molecular orbitals that correspond with ball-and-stick models, crystallographic measurements, and observed spectra.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #331 on: 03/05/2024 13:05:54 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 09:04:25
It is precisely the absence of electromagnetic emission from atoms in equilibrium that put an end to the Bohr atom.
No. It's why Bohr proposed his model, against Rutherford's planetary model.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #332 on: 03/05/2024 13:18:28 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 09:04:25
There's no implication that they magically jump.
You can say that they casually leap or tunnel. But what matters is what it means. It suggests that electrons can disappear from their previous positions and reappear in new position without traveling through the space in between.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #333 on: 03/05/2024 17:48:56 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/05/2024 13:18:28
You can say that they casually leap or tunnel.
No. Tunneling is an entirely different phenomenon.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/05/2024 13:18:28
It suggests that electrons can disappear from their previous positions and reappear in new position without traveling through the space in between.

No. Probability does not imply that anything moves. The probability of encountering a person with a black face in the street in Kinshasa is close to 100%, in Manchester, about 5%. There is no implication of instantaneous transport between the two cities.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #334 on: 03/05/2024 17:51:31 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/05/2024 13:05:54
No. It's why Bohr proposed his model, against Rutherford's planetary model.
Bohr's electrons orbit, That's the problem.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #335 on: 04/05/2024 00:14:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 17:51:31
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/05/2024 13:05:54
No. It's why Bohr proposed his model, against Rutherford's planetary model.
Bohr's electrons orbit, That's the problem.
He postulated that some orbits are stable, hence electrons occupying them don't radiate energy.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #336 on: 04/05/2024 00:16:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 17:48:56
No. Probability does not imply that anything moves.
How can electrons have momentum if they don't move?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11803
  • Activity:
    82%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #337 on: 04/05/2024 00:17:50 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 17:48:56
No. Tunneling is an entirely different phenomenon.
Are you fine with the word leap?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #338 on: 04/05/2024 11:15:18 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/05/2024 00:14:23
He postulated that some orbits are stable, hence electrons occupying them don't radiate energy.
Orbiting equals acceleration. Accelerating charges emit electromagnetic radiation. So the classical model is wrong.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    71%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #339 on: 04/05/2024 11:16:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/05/2024 00:17:50
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/05/2024 17:48:56
No. Tunneling is an entirely different phenomenon.
Are you fine with the word leap?
Different phenomena.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 28   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: radiation  / quantization  / pseudoscience 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.375 seconds with 66 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.