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  4. Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
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Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #440 on: 15/11/2024 11:16:02 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 14/11/2024 17:35:46
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 14/11/2024 15:09:45
Quote from: alancalverd on 14/11/2024 08:22:13
You have asserted that it can travel backwards,
Which post?
Your post # 420 above.
In this post, I didn't assert that it can travel backwards in time. You only made that conclusion because you assumed that light was a point particle.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/11/2024 21:53:33
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/11/2024 09:25:31
Pixel size has no influence on the distribution pattern, only on your perception of it.
It certainly has. Especially if you take it to the extreme, where one pixel is large enough to cover the whole area behind the slit.

« Last Edit: 15/11/2024 11:19:27 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #441 on: 16/11/2024 09:09:49 »
I repeat, I have made no assumptions on the nature of light. I have used only the known fact that it travels from source to receptor at a finite speed.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #442 on: 16/11/2024 09:43:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 16/11/2024 09:09:49
I repeat, I have made no assumptions on the nature of light. I have used only the known fact that it travels from source to receptor at a finite speed.
There's an implicit assumption that the receptor has no effect on the light source.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #443 on: 17/11/2024 09:48:47 »
How can it, unless it transmits some signal to the source? What evidence is there for such a signal? How does it know where the source is? Or does every receptor radiate in all directions in the hope of finding a source? Does it continue to radiate in the absence of a source?

Beware of the "observer effect" - yet another myth of bad science writing.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #444 on: 19/11/2024 03:36:03 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 17/11/2024 09:48:47
How can it, unless it transmits some signal to the source? What evidence is there for such a signal? How does it know where the source is? Or does every receptor radiate in all directions in the hope of finding a source? Does it continue to radiate in the absence of a source?

Beware of the "observer effect" - yet another myth of bad science writing.
What is the lowest frequency generated by an EM transmitter?
Why can't the receiver also transmits some sort of radiation which ends up being sensed by the transmitter?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #445 on: 19/11/2024 08:25:04 »
There is no minimum frequency, though obviously f = 0 will not launch an em wave.

We receive emr from sources at the edge of the observable universe. Your question assumes that we launched our "request"  signal 14 billion years before the Big Bang, in the full knowledge of where we and each specific target would be, 28 billion years later. Including, of course, the precise date of the invention of the telescope.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #446 on: 22/11/2024 04:52:44 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 19/11/2024 08:25:04
There is no minimum frequency, though obviously f = 0 will not launch an em wave.
It makes 0 the minimum frequency.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #447 on: 22/11/2024 05:27:33 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 19/11/2024 08:25:04
We receive emr from sources at the edge of the observable universe. Your question assumes that we launched our "request"  signal 14 billion years before the Big Bang, in the full knowledge of where we and each specific target would be, 28 billion years later. Including, of course, the precise date of the invention of the telescope.
No. It's your assumptions.
No knowledge is required for electromagnetic interactions to occur. EM radiation spreads to all direction. It interferes (edit: superposes) with radiation from all other sources. When they are in the line of sight of each other, energy exchange can happen.
« Last Edit: 24/11/2024 05:16:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #448 on: 22/11/2024 13:16:39 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/11/2024 05:27:33
EM radiation spreads to all direction.
A surprising statement from a man who experiments with lasers.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/11/2024 05:27:33
It interferes with radiation from all other sources.
My x-ray measurements are unaffected by ambient light.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/11/2024 05:27:33
When they are in the line of sight of each other, energy exchange can happen.
Only if they remain in line of sight whilst the photons are in transit.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #449 on: 23/11/2024 09:04:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/11/2024 13:16:39
A surprising statement from a man who experiments with lasers.
Radiation to other directions are cancelled due to destructive interference.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #450 on: 23/11/2024 09:05:36 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/11/2024 13:16:39
My x-ray measurements are unaffected by ambient light.
That's because your detector isn't sensitive to ambient light.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #451 on: 23/11/2024 09:12:43 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/11/2024 13:16:39
Only if they remain in line of sight whilst the photons are in transit.
Why won't they?
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #452 on: 23/11/2024 11:13:28 »
And we all thought it was something to do with Brewster mirrors.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #453 on: 23/11/2024 11:14:43 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/11/2024 09:05:36
That's because your detector isn't sensitive to ambient light.
But you said that all em radiation interferes with all the rest, i.e. nothing to do with the detector.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #454 on: 24/11/2024 05:14:19 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 23/11/2024 11:14:43
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/11/2024 09:05:36
That's because your detector isn't sensitive to ambient light.
But you said that all em radiation interferes with all the rest, i.e. nothing to do with the detector.
The more general term is superposition.
Interference should be reserved for a special case of superposition where spatial cancellation of the waves occurs. Although it can also mean different things in radio communications.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #455 on: 24/11/2024 22:29:38 »
Now there's a fun thing. When we use two photon energies, as in dual-energy x-ray analysis (DEXA) there is no evidence of superposition: the result is independent of whether we vary the generating potential with time or use a broad spectrum and analyse the received spectrum continuously.

Radio interference, on the other hand, is definitely a matter of superposition.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #456 on: 27/11/2024 08:26:21 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 24/11/2024 22:29:38
Now there's a fun thing. When we use two photon energies, as in dual-energy x-ray analysis (DEXA) there is no evidence of superposition: the result is independent of whether we vary the generating potential with time or use a broad spectrum and analyse the received spectrum continuously.

Radio interference, on the other hand, is definitely a matter of superposition.
Have you tried two radiation sources with similar frequency? Do they show something like beat phenomenon in sound?
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #457 on: 27/11/2024 08:28:40 »
My conclusion thus far regarding the title is because we can't make a transmitter with less than one electron, and we can't make a receiver with less than one electron either.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #458 on: 27/11/2024 09:58:33 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/11/2024 08:26:21
Have you tried two radiation sources with similar frequency? Do they show something like beat phenomenon in sound?
Obviously possible, and frequently encountered in radio reception, but your original statement referred to all em radiation, not similar frequencies mixed in a receiver. I have no evidence of an x-ray fluorescent screen responding at all to 100 kHz radiation.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #459 on: 27/11/2024 10:03:28 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/11/2024 08:28:40
My conclusion thus far regarding the title is because we can't make a transmitter with less than one electron, and we can't make a receiver with less than one electron either.
The receiver is irrelevant. And if you accelerate a single electron continuously, say with a sinusoidal electric field, you won't generate quantised photons, just a continuous em wave.
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