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  4. Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
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Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #480 on: 07/12/2024 16:25:03 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 07/12/2024 12:03:44
we see a smooth increase in frequency of the emitted radiation
i.e the emitted spectrum is not generated by a quantum process, which would imply a discontinuous spectrum.
Quote from: paul cotter on 07/12/2024 12:03:44
The photocell however will only react when a specific frequency is reached, indicating quantisation.
So use a thermocouple detector instead.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #481 on: 13/12/2024 13:18:30 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 07/12/2024 09:42:39
The question here is "where does quantisation of the energy  of emr come from". If you accept that it is possible to generate emr of any arbitrary frequency, then it is clear that the energy is not necessarily quantised and the answer is that in many but not all cases it is generated by a quantum process.
The formula is E=n.h.f
Here, n is an integer. While f can have arbitrary value. In black body radiation spectrum, f is continuous.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #482 on: 22/12/2024 00:40:19 »
Line Broadening
Quote
An explanation of why a four level laser can be more efficient than a three-level laser, by students Manish Trivedi and Emma Wroe from the Department of Medical Physics and Bioengineering at University College London.

Line Broadening
Quote
An explanation of line broadening in the context of laser physics, by students Konstantina Violaki and Lebina Shrestha from the Department of Medical Physics and Bioengineering at University College London.
Line broadening, including from Doppler effect, shows that describing light as point particles is not feasible. The math from Fourier transform should be obvious.
Description of light as electromagnetic wave caused by motions of electrically charged particles can meet most constraints set by known experimental results.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #483 on: 22/12/2024 00:48:53 »
I found a question in quora. Why are the absorption and emission spectrums the same?

Quote
Calling it absorption spectrum is a bit misleading, missing the full picture and causes misinterpretations. Where do the energy from the absorbed lights go?

See this image. It looks more like scattering spectrum. The unscattered frequencies are received by the sensor on the right side at full intensity. While scattered frequencies look darker there because the energy at those frequencies are scattered to different direction.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-absorption-and-emission-spectrums-the-same/answer/Hamdani-Yusuf?ch=10&oid=1477743812950057&share=e48f96ac&srid=uvWW4&target_type=answer

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #484 on: 22/12/2024 18:57:15 »
Because what goes up must come down, and the transitions of bound electrons are quantised.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #485 on: 22/12/2024 18:59:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/12/2024 00:40:19
describing light as point particles is not feasible.
...unless you are counting photons.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #486 on: 24/12/2024 11:52:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 22/12/2024 18:59:59
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/12/2024 00:40:19
describing light as point particles is not feasible.
...unless you are counting photons.
How do you count photons?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #487 on: 25/12/2024 16:06:50 »
Here's a picture of undulator.

The arrangement of magnets can be arbitrarily chosen to produce any shape of spectrum, which is continuous instead of monochromatic. One photon worth of radiation energy must contain a range of frequency, as required by Fourier transform. 
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #488 on: 26/12/2024 12:33:39 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2024 11:52:23
How do you count photons?
At low energies, with a photomultiplier. At high-ish (keV to MeV) energies, with a semiconductor detector. At higher energies, with an energy-specific scintillator.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #489 on: 26/12/2024 12:35:17 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/12/2024 16:06:50
One photon worth of radiation energy must contain a range of frequency, as required by Fourier transform. 
The it wouldn't be a photon. The particle model only allows one frequency per photon.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #490 on: 28/12/2024 11:51:05 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/12/2024 12:35:17
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/12/2024 16:06:50
One photon worth of radiation energy must contain a range of frequency, as required by Fourier transform.
The it wouldn't be a photon. The particle model only allows one frequency per photon.
Then the model is inaccurate or incomplete.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #491 on: 28/12/2024 11:56:41 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/12/2024 12:33:39
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/12/2024 11:52:23
How do you count photons?
At low energies, with a photomultiplier. At high-ish (keV to MeV) energies, with a semiconductor detector. At higher energies, with an energy-specific scintillator.
Can it detect photon in radio frequencies?
They detect transfer of electron, which can be initiated by various causes, such as temperature, electromagnetic interference, cosmic rays.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #492 on: 28/12/2024 18:15:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/12/2024 11:51:05
Then the model is inaccurate or incomplete.
It is obviously incomplete, but apparently very accurate.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #493 on: 28/12/2024 18:20:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/12/2024 11:56:41
Can it detect photon in radio frequencies?
Most radio frequencies are generated as a continuum but the RF signals from nuclear magnetic resonance and electron spin resonance relaxation are inherently quantised.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #494 on: 01/01/2025 13:08:02 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/12/2024 18:20:27
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/12/2024 11:56:41
Can it detect photon in radio frequencies?
Most radio frequencies are generated as a continuum but the RF signals from nuclear magnetic resonance and electron spin resonance relaxation are inherently quantised.
What kind of quantization is it?
Is the frequency quantized?
Is the intensity quantized?
Is the pulse width or duration quantized?
Is the radiated energy quantized?
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #495 on: 01/01/2025 14:39:23 »
All of the above.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #496 on: 02/01/2025 09:41:15 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 01/01/2025 14:39:23
All of the above.
What's the minimum non-zero value of these quantities?
frequency
intensity
pulse width or duration
radiated energy
?
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #497 on: 02/01/2025 13:24:55 »
Zero plus a bit.

The gyromagnetic ratio of a proton is about 42 MHz/T, so with a low enough magnetic field the spin flip energy can in principle be anything you want. In practice we rarely use less than 0.1T but imaging systems have been constructed to use the earth's magnetic field (around 50 μT).
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #498 on: 03/01/2025 13:28:37 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/01/2025 13:24:55
Zero plus a bit.
Can I reduce it to a half bit? Why or why not?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #499 on: 04/01/2025 21:30:15 »
Depends how big your bit is! The singularity where all your parameters are zero occurs exactly when the charge carrier is not moving.
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