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  4. Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
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Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #500 on: 05/01/2025 14:45:15 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/01/2025 21:30:15
Depends how big your bit is! The singularity where all your parameters are zero occurs exactly when the charge carrier is not moving.
Can a radiation frequency of 1 nanoHertz be transmitted?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #501 on: 07/01/2025 15:41:28 »
Why not?
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #502 on: 07/01/2025 18:21:02 »
You would need a rather long aerial(antenna), about 300000000000000000m long to get efficient radiation(dipole) and with that length conductivity would be a problem. That would give a radiation resistance of ~70ohms.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #503 on: 07/01/2025 22:22:33 »
If you are prepared to wait 109 seconds per bit for your information, you probably have time to construct a terameter antenna to receive it, or at least wrap the wire around a ferrite core.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #504 on: 08/01/2025 06:48:42 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 07/01/2025 18:21:02
You would need a rather long aerial(antenna), about 300000000000000000m long to get efficient radiation(dipole) and with that length conductivity would be a problem. That would give a radiation resistance of ~70ohms.
It's only necessary for far field radiation. Producing near field radiation can use much shorter antenna.

Here's a more practical case. There's a standard FM radio with 100 MHz base frequency. Is there any physical constraints that prevent me from increasing the frequency by 1 nanoHertz? What is the minimum increase of radiation frequency?
« Last Edit: 08/01/2025 07:19:24 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #505 on: 08/01/2025 10:10:55 »
You did ask could such a low frequency be TRANSMITTED. That to me means the far field 1/r component. As an aerial(antenna) becomes electrically short it becomes harder to transmit energy efficiently as the radiation resistance falls and a capacitive reactive component becomes a real problem for impedance matching. Some submarine low frequency transmitters can have an output of 100Kw yet only manage an erp of 1Kw due to the inefficiency of a short aerial(antenna).
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #506 on: 08/01/2025 10:28:05 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 08/01/2025 10:10:55
You did ask could such a low frequency be TRANSMITTED. That to me means the far field 1/r component. As an aerial(antenna) becomes electrically short it becomes harder to transmit energy efficiently as the radiation resistance falls and a capacitive reactive component becomes a real problem for impedance matching. Some submarine low frequency transmitters can have an output of 100Kw yet only manage an erp of 1Kw due to the inefficiency of a short aerial(antenna).
What do you think is the more appropriate word for transmission of near field radiation?

Imagine an electret rotating slowly, with the axis of rotation is perpendicular to the axis of its internal electric field/lines of forces. Its external electric field will be oscillating accordingly.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2025 10:31:02 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #507 on: 08/01/2025 12:18:59 »
The near field 1/r squared and 1/r cubed fields are induced magnetic and electric fields that are not transmission in the accepted idiom, ie em radiation.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #508 on: 08/01/2025 22:19:08 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/01/2025 06:48:42
There's a standard FM radio with 100 MHz base frequency. Is there any physical constraints that prevent me from increasing the frequency by 1 nanoHertz?
No.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #509 on: 09/01/2025 02:40:48 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/01/2025 22:19:08
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/01/2025 06:48:42
There's a standard FM radio with 100 MHz base frequency. Is there any physical constraints that prevent me from increasing the frequency by 1 nanoHertz?
No.
Then frequency is not quantized.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #510 on: 09/01/2025 10:24:09 »
Nobody ever said it was. Quantum events have specific associated frequencies but the em spectrum is a classical continuum.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #511 on: 09/01/2025 11:32:36 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 09/01/2025 10:24:09
Nobody ever said it was. Quantum events have specific associated frequencies but the em spectrum is a classical continuum.
You did.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/01/2025 13:08:02
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/12/2024 18:20:27
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/12/2024 11:56:41
Can it detect photon in radio frequencies?
Most radio frequencies are generated as a continuum but the RF signals from nuclear magnetic resonance and electron spin resonance relaxation are inherently quantised.
What kind of quantization is it?
Is the frequency quantized?
Is the intensity quantized?
Is the pulse width or duration quantized?
Is the radiated energy quantized?


Quote from: alancalverd on 01/01/2025 14:39:23
All of the above.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #512 on: 09/01/2025 15:41:37 »
As I said, the RF signal from quantum transitions is quantised.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #513 on: 10/01/2025 03:46:00 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 09/01/2025 15:41:37
As I said, the RF signal from quantum transitions is quantised.
Basically you say that some RF signal are quantized, but some don't.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #514 on: 10/01/2025 17:21:13 »
Obviously.

For the nth time, em radiation from a quantum process such as an electron transition within an atom,  or the disintegration of a nucleus,  will have a specific energy and associated frequency. Emr from a continuous process such as a radio antenna can have any frequency you choose. It just happens that a lot of quantised emr derives from high energy transitions, from about 1 eV upwards where continuum generation is technically difficult.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #515 on: 11/01/2025 10:43:59 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/01/2025 17:21:13
For the nth time, em radiation from a quantum process such as an electron transition within an atom,  or the disintegration of a nucleus,  will have a specific energy and associated frequency.
But you can increase or decrease the frequency using magnetic or electric field and broaden the spectrum without any constraints in minimum amount of change.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #516 on: 11/01/2025 18:05:50 »
You will only broaden the spectrum from a large sample by having an inhomogeneous field or an inhomogeneous sample (chemical shift). The gyromagnetic ratio of the proton is fixed.
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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #517 on: 12/01/2025 01:23:08 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/01/2025 18:05:50
You will only broaden the spectrum from a large sample by having an inhomogeneous field or an inhomogeneous sample (chemical shift). The gyromagnetic ratio of the proton is fixed.
Still, it shows that the frequency is not quantized.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #518 on: 12/01/2025 15:27:14 »
As I have said many times. Wherever did you get the idea that it might be?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where does quantization of energy of electromagnetic radiation come from?
« Reply #519 on: 20/01/2025 14:24:40 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/01/2025 15:27:14
As I have said many times. Wherever did you get the idea that it might be?
You are the one who said that.
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