[Bored chemist]

In every single collision between any two atoms or between atoms and photons or phonons, momenta and energy are conserved.
So they must be conserved in every sequence  and combination of collisions.
So they are conserved in total.

Get back to us when  you can explain how arithmetic fails.

[Bored chemist]

believe we already covered the universal link (momentum = energy/phase velocity.)

Yes we did.
I pointed out that sound waves spread in all directions, so their vector sum is zero.
That cover it nicely.

[gem (OP)]

Hi all

BC

In every single collision between any two atoms or between atoms and photons or phonons, momenta and energy are conserved.
So they must be conserved in every sequence  and combination of collisions.

How does the addition work for a non isolated system ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation

BC

I pointed out that sound waves spread in all directions, so their vector sum is zero.
That cover it nicely.

I think if you look back that was me.

gem

The problem with that is,
the momentum and energy of sound  is carried off in all directions.

which brings us back to, how is the vector direction total maintained for later transfer back to the angular momentum of the solid earth, due to the partially inelastic collisions sending momentum away from the transfer point, in all directions ?

So the problem still remains, a daily change in angular momentum vector due to friction ending up as momentum with a positive value but no longer having a net direction to transfer back to maintain/conserve the LOD

Indeed the random motion of particles can decrease/increase depending on the balance of incoming/outgoing flux of radiation to the Non isolated system under consideration.

Also given the Non inertial conditions of the system this generates forces that can and does accelerate/change the momentum of a droplet of a fluid by altering the gradient of the pressure due to the dynamics of changing density in a gravity field due to the incoming/outgoing flux of radiation to the Non isolated non inertial system under consideration.

[Bored chemist]

How does the addition work for a non isolated system ?

If no particle leaves then no momentum leaves.
If the loss is (on average) isotropic then the net change in momentum is (on  average) zero

[Bored chemist]

So the problem still remains, a daily change in angular momentum vector due to friction ending up as momentum with a positive value but no longer having a net direction to transfer back to maintain/conserve the LOD

As Paul Simon said, "the problem is all inside your head"
"The answer is easy , if you take it logically."

This "a daily change in angular momentum vector due to friction "
Just isn't real.

[Bored chemist]

I realise it's terribly "English" to always talk about the weather but...

For those who didn't get the point.
Gem talks of

1.6 x 10^21 joules for the day

which is quite a lot of energy
But a single hurricane can carry 10^20 J

So, if you consider the weather over the whole Earth, 1.6*10^21 J is not much

[gem (OP)]

Hi all,

BC

If the loss is (on average) isotropic then the net change in momentum is (on  average) zero

The problem with that statement is the frictional coupling between the solid earth and its atmosphere converts  anisotropic motion to isotropic motion.

Also as stated previously, the the Non inertial conditions of the system that generates forces that can and does accelerate/change the momentum of a droplet of a fluid by altering the gradient of the pressure due to the dynamics of changing density in a gravity field due to the incoming/outgoing flux of radiation to the Non isolated non inertial system under consideration is an example of anisotropy due to bulk flows of fluid with a background effect due to density, therefore favoring a specific direction.

So the problem still remains, a daily change in angular momentum vector due to friction ending up as momentum with a positive value but no longer having a net direction to transfer back to maintain/conserve the LOD

Moving on to the points regarding following the energy of the interactions I am highlighting here its the patterns of the fluctuations that could give a insight to the dynamics.
So looking at the annual 3 milli second variation in LOD ( Δ = 1.4477 x 10^22 Joules/day ) 

Given it was down to a necessity to explain the newly discovered three millisecond annual variation in LOD I believe it was the explanation of its time, but I believe there is alternative explanations that will be more satisfactory.
 
https://syrte.obspm.fr/astro/journees2019/FILES/salstein.pdf

The earliest observations of changes in length of day were made at Paris Observatory by Stoyko
and Stoyko (1936), who observed the annual variation of length of day. In 1948, Victor Starr of the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) noted that the atmosphere need not conserve angular
momentum, and could share it with the Earth below. Starr started the General Circulation Project
at MIT, and one of its features was calculations of fluxes and changes in atmospheric angular
momentum.

BC

As Paul Simon said, "the problem is all inside your head"
"The answer is easy , if you take it logically."

This "a daily change in angular momentum vector due to friction "
Just isn't real.

Its funny you should take the lyrics route to make a point, because I intend to do similar to start the explanation as to the real dynamics occurring.

Daft Punk Lyrics:

"Like the legend of the phoenix
Our ends were beginnings
What keeps the planet spinning
The force from the beginning"


So look out for "Are you a Daft Punk or a Newton of drift theory ?"

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Wegener/wegener.php

[Bored chemist]

The problem with that statement is the frictional coupling between the solid earth and its atmosphere converts  anisotropic motion to isotropic motion.

That bit of the system isn't where things are lost from, so momentum cannot be carried away into space.

You also seem not to recognise that, on any given day, the angular momentum of the atmosphere may be a bit higher or lower than the average but, the total angular momentum of the rock and the air is conserved.
It is conserved because there is no torque acting on the system (apart from a few thing we have discussed, such as the tides).

[gem (OP)]

Hi all,

BC

You also seem not to recognise that, on any given day, the angular momentum of the atmosphere may be a bit higher or lower than the average

So to be clear, I believe it is possible the average angular momentum total fluctuates, for the reasons given previously,
the sharing of angular momentum between the atmosphere and the solid earth became the go to explanation of the underlying annual fluctuation.

I believe it can be explained as terminal velocity.

   
BC

It is conserved because there is no torque acting on the system (apart from a few thing we have discussed, such as the tides).

That indeed is the current thinking, which I believe falls short of the physical reality, I think there is potential alternative explanations as to the fluctuations of LOD that indeed require forces not yet identified.

To explain these forces although a simple mechanism, I will have to go across a broad range of examples and correlations of physical events.

For example a potential link to galaxy rotation curves and G 

 

[Bored chemist]

I believe it can be explained as terminal velocity.

You can believe what you like but, since this is a science page, you will be ignored if you don't provide evidence.

To explain these forces although a simple mechanism, I will have to go across a broad range of examples and correlations of physical events.

If you are not talking about sailing ships, you should probably open a new thread.
Also, since you are putting forward a "new theory", your new thread shouldn't be in this section.