[Just thinking (OP)]

There is no reason to suppose that it was.

There are many things in science that are supported by wind. I have pointed out many of them.

[Bored chemist]

There are many things in science that are supported by wind.

No, there are not

I have pointed out many of them.

You have pointed out that you didn't look for the real support, or that you didn't understand it.
Why not learn the science, rather than broadcasting your ignorance?

[Just thinking (OP)]

Why not learn the science, rather than broadcasting your ignorance?

Sounds like you have discovered the one and only correct religion some churches have friendly preachers that know how to listen as well as preach.

[Bored chemist]

Sounds like you have discovered the one and only correct religion

Yes, and it is called evidence.
Come and join us.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Come and join us.

Yes, I know my ears can join in but keep my mouth shut church.

[Bored chemist]

Come and join us.

Yes, I know my ears can join in but keep my mouth shut church.

You don't have to keep your mouth shut in science.
But if you open it, you had better be sure that you have evidence to back up what you say.

And if you say things that are against the evidence you will get laughed at

[Just thinking (OP)]

And if you say things that are against the evidence you will get laughed at

We can laugh at what people say and what people do but it's not very productive. If you see an old lady on the side of the road and her car has a punctured tyre and she is checking her oil you will laugh at her and drive off or better still stay there and heckle her reminding her how stupid she is. I knew you would see my point finally. And I'm not even wrong the irony of it.

[Bored chemist]

If you see an old lady on the side of the road and her car has a punctured tyre and she is checking her oil you will laugh at her and drive off or better still stay there and heckle her reminding her how stupid she is.

No.
I'd help change the tyre.
Why did you think otherwise?
The point is you wouldn't want me to fix the tyre because you would insist it's an oil level problem.
Even if I replaced the tyre and showed that the car now works, you would still insist that you were right all along, in spite of the actual evidence.

I knew you would see my point finally.

You do not have a point.

A universe which does not exist can not do much.
In particular, it can not think.

And I'm not even wrong

Looks about right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

[Just thinking (OP)]

Why did you think otherwise?

I thought that the old lady was stupid and you would let her know just as I am stupid and you let me know. Thanks for asking.

[Bored chemist]

Why did you think otherwise?

I thought that the old lady was stupid and you would let her know just as I am stupid and you let me know. Thanks for asking.

And do you plan to announce that you will continue not to learn?
Because that's the point when people start  to laugh at you.

For example, have you got to grips with the idea that a thing which does not exist can not think?

[Just thinking (OP)]

For example, have you got to grips with the idea that a thing which does not exist can not think?

I thought that I already explained that it's coming into existence was its first thought.

[Bored chemist]

For example, have you got to grips with the idea that a thing which does not exist can not think?

I thought that I already explained that it's coming into existence was its first thought.

You keep ignoring the problem.
You say that was "its first thought".
What was the "It" that did the thinking?

[Just thinking (OP)]

What was the "It" that did the thinking?

The {It} is the very first thing to happen not living not dead but just a beginning like when an embryo or a sperm becomes. I think the universe is like a birth I have no idea who is the parents or any idea of its origin only that what I see now is. This is only a possibility and I know that it is one in a million of being the truth but there it is.

[BilboGrabbins]

The universe may have thought its self into existence. How let's start here when we have a thought we create electrons that traverse the neurons of our mind the electrons have a mass that means that the brain is creating a negatively charged particle our little brain can only hold so much. Now if we step this up just a little bit and consider the electrons that are a part of all the hydrogen in the universe we can see how the expanse of the universe is a kind to a great neuron filled with the matter of electrons as the universe expands it fills with thought yes thought has mass. We can now safely consider the universe as a growing neuron. Please don't thank me just think about it and create some matter.

There's at least two viable ways to think about a speculation.

1. The transactional interpretation, that observations now shape our past

2. That the universe exists in a state designed as a fine tuning that allows life to exist

Consciousness may be cosmic allowing it to prevail even in the most profoundly dark and distances of spacetime, and in a sense, we are subsystems of the holistic universe, we are conscious beings made from the same stuff around us, but to say the universe is holistically a system that thinks, borderlines on philosophy of God.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Consciousness may be cosmic allowing it to prevail even in the most profoundly dark and distances of spacetime, and in a sense, we are subsystems of the holistic universe, we are conscious beings made from the same stuff around us, byt ti say the universe is holistically a system that think, borderlines on philosophy of God.

I think that all we see and all we know and all that there is ' is incredible and hard to believe but yet it is. So what if there is a God and he/she created all and this God is less than what we already know something simple creating something more complicated it is food for thought and we need thought to feed and we do and we eat.

[Bored chemist]

not living not dead but just a beginning like when an embryo or a sperm becomes.

Embryos and sperm are clearly alive.

I think the universe is like a birth I have no idea who is the parents or any idea of its origin only that what I see now is.

This page is about science...

The {It} is the very first thing to happen not living not dead

Where did it come from?
That's what you keep not answering.

[BilboGrabbins]

Consciousness may be cosmic allowing it to prevail even in the most profoundly dark and distances of spacetime, and in a sense, we are subsystems of the holistic universe, we are conscious beings made from the same stuff around us, but to say the universe is holistically a system that think, borderlines on philosophy of God.

I think that all we see and all we know and all that there is ' is incredible and hard to believe but yet it is. So what if there is a God and he/she created all and this God is less than what we already know something simple creating something more complicated it is food for thought and we need thought to feed and we do and we eat.

I'm not saying there isn't a God. In fact, there's over 120 fine tuning parameters agreed by cosmologists that if it had been any different, life as we know it, the universe itself would not exist.

What I am saying, is that if God is real, does he encompass consciousness in us all, or are we emergent subsystems of the universe and the ideology of a Cosmic Superintelligence exists because of us?

In a conversation with my local preacher, I explained we are so reliant on the need for God, but without us, God could not exist. He agreed, perhaps reluctantly.

[Just thinking (OP)]

Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    not living not dead but just a beginning like when an embryo or a sperm becomes.

Embryos and sperm are clearly alive.
Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    I think the universe is like a birth I have no idea who is the parents or any idea of its origin only that what I see now is.

This page is about science...

Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    The {It} is the very first thing to happen not living not dead

Where did it come from?
That's what you keep not answering.

I think it is the equivalent of the big bang it started but we have no knowledge of what it was before. It is not living until it is living it starts when it starts and we have no say in it. Many scientists like yourself have pointed out many truths and I believe you do not intend to deceive but strive to educate. I believe we are not Board chemist and Just thinking but drunk and yet to wake up to what is real and yet to be discovered.






 

[BilboGrabbins]

Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    not living not dead but just a beginning like when an embryo or a sperm becomes.

Embryos and sperm are clearly alive.
Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    I think the universe is like a birth I have no idea who is the parents or any idea of its origin only that what I see now is.

This page is about science...

Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:45:43

    The {It} is the very first thing to happen not living not dead

Where did it come from?
That's what you keep not answering.

I think it is the equivalent of the big bang it started but we have no knowledge of what it was before. It is not living until it is living it starts when it starts and we have no say in it. Many scientists like yourself have pointed out many truths and I believe you do not intend to deceive but strive to educate. I believe we are not Board chemist and Just thinking but drunk and yet to wake up to what is real and yet to be discovered.






 

Yes, well, I don't know if you have looked at my pre big bang model, but it still cannot explain where it came from. The cold big bang model under new theories here was an attempt for a more realistic beginning so that it didn't violate the thermodynamic laws like the hot big bang does. I don't think we can extrapolate the variables in such a way that we can explain the universe outside of the more exotic theories outside our own scope of the mainstream.

There was one idea, possibly originating from Tipler but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I entertained any of it, that the beginning was inextricably looped with the end of the universe in what physics call an Alpha state and an Omega state, connected by a timelike loop not too different to a wormhole. The problem is that with wormholes, without negative energy or enough spin causing centrifugal repulsion, it is highly unstable. But maybe this is not a problem as it evolved, since maybe this past and future of the universe we see is a direct seperation of a more timelike loop that existed in the past. We call such universes as being self-consistent.

[Just thinking (OP)]

There was one idea, possibly originating from Tipler but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I entertained any of it, that the beginning was inextricably looped with the end of the universe in what physics call an Alpha state and an Omega state,

Yes, my idea is a bit difficult to explain as Bored chemist has asked how can the dead think its self into existence and how can a universe even think at all. If my idea is wrong and it most probably is then that makes the whole thing rather silly but I will continue to look for answers. Anyway thanks for your post.