The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11   Go Down

Is my Model for Particles Correct?

  • 217 Replies
  • 35538 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kartazion

  • ⛨ Knight ⚔
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 555
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 10 times
  • Quantum Mechanics
    • Advertise and be banned
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #40 on: 20/02/2022 09:19:02 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 20/02/2022 08:17:42

Neutrinos have velocity as well, so their energy can be more than 5.79 eV.

The reference above graphs energies of GeVs and more.

L0 does not have mass. Although I can be mistaken. Nothing prevents it from having mass.
With all due respect and after discussing with you, you are far from a model that could call into question an already well-developed, because here we have to review everything.
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #41 on: 20/02/2022 10:25:22 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 20/02/2022 08:17:42
Although I can be mistaken.
Frequently.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #42 on: 20/02/2022 17:41:11 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 20/02/2022 08:17:42
Neutrinos have velocity as well, so their energy can be more than 5.79 eV.

Your particle can also have velocity, so what's the difference?

Quote from: talanum1 on 20/02/2022 08:17:42
L0 does not have mass. Although I can be mistaken. Nothing prevents it from having mass.

The neutrino might not have mass either. All that was determined via experiment was an upper limit on its mass, not a lower limit.

Also, conservation of momentum would let us know if there was a missing particle in charged pion decay. As stated here, a decay that results in just two particles gives definite energies for the resulting particles: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/piondec.html

If there was a third particle carrying energy and momentum, then we would see a variety of different energies for the resulting muons or electrons.
Logged
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #43 on: 22/02/2022 08:27:32 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 20/02/2022 17:41:11
If there was a third particle carrying energy and momentum, then we would see a variety of different energies for the resulting muons or electrons.

Don't we see this?
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #44 on: 22/02/2022 08:46:06 »

* paper.JPG (23.57 kB . 623x293 - viewed 2120 times)
Looks about right.

Quote from: talanum1 on 22/02/2022 08:27:32
Don't we see this?
Didn't you see this?
Quote from: Kryptid on 20/02/2022 17:41:11
As stated here, a decay that results in just two particles gives definite energies for the resulting particles: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/piondec.html
« Last Edit: 22/02/2022 08:48:46 by Bored chemist »
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #45 on: 22/02/2022 08:57:56 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 22/02/2022 08:46:06
Didn't you see this?
Quote from: Kryptid on 20/02/2022 17:41:11
As stated here, a decay that results in just two particles gives definite energies for the resulting particles: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/piondec.html

It can't give the same energies every time. What is meant by "definite energies" vs. "variety of different energies"?
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #46 on: 22/02/2022 11:06:07 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 22/02/2022 08:57:56
It can't give the same energies every time.
It does.
Stop ignoring reality.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #47 on: 22/02/2022 11:25:20 »
Violating Structure Conservation is unpalatable.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #48 on: 22/02/2022 14:50:11 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 22/02/2022 08:57:56
Quote from: Bored chemist on 22/02/2022 08:46:06
Didn't you see this?
Quote from: Kryptid on 20/02/2022 17:41:11
As stated here, a decay that results in just two particles gives definite energies for the resulting particles: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/piondec.html

It can't give the same energies every time. What is meant by "definite energies" vs. "variety of different energies"?

Conservation of momentum. Let's say you have an object with a momentum of zero. If it splits into two objects, then those objects must travel in opposite directions in order for momentum to be conserved. Those two objects must then have momentum equal to each other in order to keep the total momentum zero. If one is more massive than the other, then lighter object must travel faster. In any case, there is only one way to distribute the momentum and energy in the system in order for momentum to be conserved.

The same is not true if you have three or more objects. By varying the angles that they travel away from the decaying object, you can ascribe various different energies and momenta to the resulting objects and still conserve momentum.

So if there are only two particles resulting from charged pion decay, the particle energies are predictable. If there are three particles, then the particle energies are probabilistic instead.

Since two particles is the currently accepted decay mode, then surely the observed reality is that of definite energies of the decay products. If this wasn't so, then we would hear of there being decay anomalies associated with charged pions and thus the prediction of the existence of an unknown particle.

Violating structure conservation is only unpalatable to you. If you are unwilling to accept the evidence, despite it contradicting what you think, then you aren't doing science.
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #49 on: 22/02/2022 17:15:23 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 22/02/2022 11:25:20
Violating Structure Conservation is unpalatable.
There's nothing wrong with failing to conserve something that doesn't exist.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #50 on: 23/02/2022 14:13:26 »
The L0 goes into the extra dimensions and does not participate in momentum redistribution.

The model predicts the field of a trapped electron as well, I just didn't include it in the paper.
« Last Edit: 23/02/2022 15:41:37 by talanum1 »
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #51 on: 23/02/2022 15:17:35 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 23/02/2022 14:13:26
The L0 goes into the extra dimensions and does not participate in momentum redistribution.

Nice attempt to move the goalposts, but that doesn't work either. Since your particle carries away energy, the remaining decay products would have less total momentum than the original pion. That means conservation of momentum is violated.
Logged
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #52 on: 23/02/2022 15:46:14 »
What everyone is telling you is that your model is wrong, worse than that your model is nonsense, worse than that it isn't even a model, worse than that it is obvious that you have no idea what are talking about.
Don't make up stupid crap, learn some real physics!  It is fun and rewarding.
Logged
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #53 on: 23/02/2022 17:40:29 »
It remains to explain what happens to the structure of the L0. If  its structure is real, why can it be equivalent to empty space?
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #54 on: 23/02/2022 18:07:48 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 23/02/2022 17:40:29
It remains to explain what happens to the structure of the L0. If  its structure is real, why can it be equivalent to empty space?

Your particle has already been falsified by conservation of momentum.
Logged
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #55 on: 24/02/2022 12:21:12 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 23/02/2022 18:07:48
Your particle has already been falsified by conservation of momentum.

Then it remains to explain how Isospin, Parity and C-Parity of the π- get destroyed.
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #56 on: 24/02/2022 12:23:29 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 24/02/2022 12:21:12
Quote from: Kryptid on 23/02/2022 18:07:48
Your particle has already been falsified by conservation of momentum.

Then it remains to explain how Isospin, Parity and C-Parity of the π- get destroyed.

maybe, maybe not.
But we can be perfectly sure that your idea can't explain it.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #57 on: 24/02/2022 16:13:32 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/02/2022 12:23:29
But we can be perfectly sure that your idea can't explain it.

My idea certainly highlights the problem.

I want to know why it can be destroyed.
« Last Edit: 24/02/2022 16:38:36 by talanum1 »
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #58 on: 24/02/2022 19:28:45 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 24/02/2022 16:13:32
My idea certainly highlights the problem.

I want to know why it can be destroyed.
Your idea can be destroyed because it's wrong.
Specifically, it contradicts the conservation of momentum.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Is my Model for Particles Correct?
« Reply #59 on: 25/02/2022 19:50:38 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/02/2022 19:28:45
Your idea can be destroyed because it's wrong.
Specifically, it contradicts the conservation of momentum.

I meant how and why Isospin, Parity and C-Parity can be destroyed.

Just the L0 idea and Structure Conservation was proved wrong. The rest of the ideas stand.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.31 seconds with 68 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.