[Bored chemist]

The ceramic plate filters out some wavelengths.

By Kirchhoff's law, the ceramic plate does exactly as good a job of re-emitting those wavelengths as it does of absorbing them.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The ceramic plate filters out some wavelengths.

By Kirchhoff's law, the ceramic plate does exactly as good a job of re-emitting those wavelengths as it does of absorbing them.

The ceramic plate doesn't glow red. It's significantly cooler than the heating element.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Do you think gas stove will give better result?

It looks like I have to do the experiment myself, just as usual.
I've done recording the video, and I'll upload it after I finish the editing.

[Bored chemist]

The ceramic plate filters out some wavelengths.

By Kirchhoff's law, the ceramic plate does exactly as good a job of re-emitting those wavelengths as it does of absorbing them.

The ceramic plate doesn't glow red. It's significantly cooler than the heating element.

So the fact that visible light  goes through borosilicate is even less relevant.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So the fact that visible light  goes through borosilicate is even less relevant.

The ceramic plate is somewhat transparent to red light, as shown in the video. So, the water receives some red and infrared radiation, beside the heat conduction from the borosilicate glass.
The difference from microwave oven is that the borosilicate glass generates almost no heat from the radiation. The heat is generated in the water instead.

[Bored chemist]

So, the water receives some red and infrared radiation,

And the red light goes straight trough the water- because water is colourless.

What point are you trying to make?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So, the water receives some red and infrared radiation,

And the red light goes straight trough the water- because water is colourless.

What point are you trying to make?

Identify all differences and similarities between microwave oven and infrared stove in boiling demineralized water inside a smooth container. Then identify which differences contribute to the difference in their result regarding superheating of water.

[Bored chemist]

So, the water receives some red and infrared radiation,

And the red light goes straight trough the water- because water is colourless.

What point are you trying to make?

Identify all differences and similarities between microwave oven and infrared stove in boiling demineralized water inside a smooth container. Then identify which differences contribute to the difference in their result regarding superheating of water.

OK the so called infrared stove does shine a small amount of red light through the water.
Do you think that is likely to have an effect?

What are the power ratings of the two systems?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

OK the so called infrared stove does shine a small amount of red light through the water.
Do you think that is likely to have an effect?

A similarity between infrared stove and microwave oven : Some heat is generated in the water.
A difference: Most heat in boiling water by infrared stove is generated in the glass body, which is then transferred to water through conduction. Whereas most heat in boiling water by microwave oven is generated in the water itself.
Although it hasn't been obvious yet that the difference above is the one which causes the different result.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Here's the experiment of boiling demineralized water in borosilicate beaker using gas stove. It seems that lack of nucleation site can still make it boil. No superheating is shown.

[Bored chemist]

At about 37 seconds you imply that my breath is at 100C on a cold day.

Your experiment shows that heating water from the bottom is less likely to cause superheating than if you heat it throughout.
So what?

In reality, superheating was documented long before anyone had microwave ovens.
So it is clearly possible to superheat water without using microwaves.

Do you accept that?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

At about 37 seconds you imply that my breath is at 100C on a cold day.

How would you interpret the condensation there?

Your experiment shows that heating water from the bottom is less likely to cause superheating than if you heat it throughout.
So what?

The fire clearly touches the side of the beaker as well.

In reality, superheating was documented long before anyone had microwave ovens.
So it is clearly possible to superheat water without using microwaves.

What's your evidence? A video may be?
Do the superheated water by other means behave the same way as superheated water by microwave oven?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Here's another video trying to explain superheated water by microwave. It says that water can become hotter than its boiling point without actually boiling. Unfortunately, it's not demonstrated in the video, since the thermometer only show 208?F, instead of a number larger than 212?F.

[Bored chemist]

I missed this at the time you posted it.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/05/2022 13:19:12
In reality, superheating was documented long before anyone had microwave ovens.
So it is clearly possible to superheat water without using microwaves.
What's your evidence?

Personal experience.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In all of the videos showing water bumping without microwave, the boiling happened while the water was being heated. Unlike those with microwave, where the boiling happened while the water was not being heated.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I missed this at the time you posted it.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/05/2022 13:19:12
In reality, superheating was documented long before anyone had microwave ovens.
So it is clearly possible to superheat water without using microwaves.
What's your evidence?

Personal experience.

What kind of heater did you use?
What's the container?

Why do you think my experiments using infrared and gas stove didn't produce superheated water?

[Bored chemist]

Chemists (and others) have been putting effort into avoiding the problem of superheating water since, at least, when my dad's chemistry books were written.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumping_(chemistry)

Why do you think my experiments using infrared and gas stove didn't produce superheated water?

You need clean , smooth equipment.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Chemists (and others) have been putting effort into avoiding the problem of superheating water since, at least, when my dad's chemistry books were written.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumping_(chemistry)

Bumping occurs when a liquid is heated or has its pressure reduced very rapidly,

We can reliably produce superheated water using microwave even with a slow heating process. The superheated water can also be boiled slowly by immersing only a small amount of object.

It hints that they could be different/distinct phenomena.

You need clean , smooth equipment.

I used the same equipment for microwave as well as other kind of heaters, but the results are different.

[Bored chemist]

Do water molecules carry watches?
If not, how do they know if they have been heated quickly?
If they don't know, then how can they act differently?

[Bored chemist]

The explanation is " due to a lack of nucleation sites "