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  4. Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
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Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?

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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #20 on: 20/03/2022 14:45:16 »
Sorry, I had forgotten the attached paper.
* Cosmological models and the Large Numbers hypothesis.pdf (1457.43 kB - downloaded 134 times.)
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #21 on: 20/03/2022 15:10:44 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 14:42:49
Nevertheless, some scientists, including myself, follows in the footsteps of Dirac, searching for a meaning of dimensionless numbers
I didn't realize you were a scientist.  Could you explain how the Hubble constant can have a frequency and what that frequency is?  Thanks.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #22 on: 20/03/2022 19:01:16 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 19/03/2022 22:04:53
OK, I am glad that there are so many replies, so thank you again for all those comments.
I here try to answer some of them, but one at a time.
Let me know when you plan to get to this one.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/03/2022 20:47:41
The fact that it fails on dimensional analysis is beside the point unless he can explain why something constant is the same as something that's changing.

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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #23 on: 20/03/2022 19:35:54 »
Quote from: Origin on 20/03/2022 15:10:44
Could you explain how the Hubble constant can have a frequency and what that frequency is?  Thanks.
The fact is that the dimension of a rate is the same as that of a frequency (T-1). In the case of the Hubble constant, it is expressed as a speed divided by a length so we get [H] = (L T-1) / L = T-1. It is not a frequency as such, but it is assumed to be the smallest possible value of a physical quantity of dimension T-1.
By the way, I consider myself as a low level computer scientist. Since I am not a physicist, I am not qualified to provide pertinent advice on the subject matter. Moreover, my view of the physical world is unconventional.
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #24 on: 20/03/2022 19:56:34 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/03/2022 19:01:16
The fact that it fails on dimensional analysis is beside the point unless he can explain why something constant is the same as something that's changing.
The fact is that the possible variation of physical constant is a complex and unresolved issue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-variation_of_fundamental_constants [nofollow]
If some of them are varying over time, it should be very slowly, because there is no obvious observation supporting this hypothesis. I do not pretend to solve this enigma in my preview, so I am just wondering if some of them could vary.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #25 on: 20/03/2022 21:07:30 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 19:56:34
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/03/2022 19:01:16
The fact that it fails on dimensional analysis is beside the point unless he can explain why something constant is the same as something that's changing.
The fact is that the possible variation of physical constant is a complex and unresolved issue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-variation_of_fundamental_constants
If some of them are varying over time, it should be very slowly, because there is no obvious observation supporting this hypothesis. I do not pretend to solve this enigma in my preview, so I am just wondering if some of them could vary.
Yes.
But they would all have to vary in carefully specified ways in order to not be obvious.

And your idea doesn't fit with that
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #26 on: 20/03/2022 23:39:09 »
 
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 19:35:54
The fact is that the dimension of a rate is the same as that of a frequency (T-1).
That is not correct, the dimensions of the rate in this case is L/t.
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 19:35:54
In the case of the Hubble constant, it is expressed as a speed divided by a length so we get [H] = (L T-1) / L = T-1.
You can't just cancel out the Lengths since one of the units is km and the other is Mpc.  Using unit analysis you can easily convert Mpc to km and then you will end up with the reciprocal of the age of the universe.
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 19:35:54
It is not a frequency as such, but it is assumed to be the smallest possible value of a physical quantity of dimension T-1.
What do you mean by, "it is assumed to be the smallest possible value of a physical quantity of dimension T-1"?
I agree it is not a frequency and certainly multiplying the Hubble constant by by the Planck constant is not going to give you anything useful.
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #27 on: 21/03/2022 15:51:54 »
Quote from: Halc on 20/03/2022 23:01:28
I am as well, although I've never suggested to anybody that I'm a scientist.
I have a degree in computer sciences from Université Laval and a specialization in computer security from Université de Sherbrooke. This may not be impressive but enough to confirm my scientific background.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #28 on: 21/03/2022 16:21:15 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 21/03/2022 15:51:54
I have a degree in computer sciences from Université Laval and a specialization in computer security from Université de Sherbrooke. This may not be impressive but enough to confirm my scientific background.
It would be much more useful to address the questions about your ideas rather than discussing our educational backgrounds.
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #29 on: 21/03/2022 17:37:26 »
Quote from: Origin on 21/03/2022 16:21:15
It would be much more useful to address the questions about your ideas rather than discussing our educational backgrounds.
Your are 100% right, this is precisely what I expected.
Quote from: Origin on 20/03/2022 23:39:09
That is not correct, the dimensions of the rate in this case is L/t.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law [nofollow]
"Hubble constant is most frequently quoted in (km/s)/Mpc, thus giving the speed in km/s of a galaxy 1 megaparsec (3.09×1019 km) away, and its value is about 70 (km/s)/Mpc. However, the SI unit of H0 is simply s−1, and the SI unit for the reciprocal of H0 is simply the second. The reciprocal of H0 is known as the Hubble time. The Hubble constant can also be interpreted as the relative rate of expansion. In this form H0 = 7%/Gyr, meaning that at the current rate of expansion it takes a billion years for an unbound structure to grow by 7%."
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #30 on: 21/03/2022 17:48:19 »
Quote from: Origin on 20/03/2022 23:39:09
What do you mean by, "it is assumed to be the smallest possible value of a physical quantity of dimension T-1"?
This is an assumption of the preview. If there is a minimum value for the physical quantities action, charge and temperature, then maybe some other physical quantities may be minimally limited too.
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #31 on: 21/03/2022 18:20:17 »
Quote from: Halc on 20/03/2022 23:52:44
My choosing different particles was meant to illustrate the meaninglessness of comparing the one force with another, since they're not functions of the same thing.  So there's an insanely large difference between the gravitational and EM attraction between a positron and an electron, yet the gravitational force between a pair of billiard balls is probably more than the EM force between them. So does that mean that gravity is stronger than EM? No, it just means the ratio between them is in different units and is thus a meaningless comparison.
In both cases, the attractive force is expressed in newtons (of dimension M L T-2). As for the choice of particles, it is the same one that Dirac made in his paper attached to my previous post. I understand that this may seem arbitrary, but once again:
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 20/03/2022 14:42:49
There seems to be something special about the electron-proton couple, as if they were two sides of the same coin. The same thing applies to the positron-antiproton couple. In the chapter 2 of his 1974 paper "Cosmological Models and the Large Numbers Hypothesis", Paul Dirac uses this same ratio:
"The electric force between the electron and the proton in a hydrogen atom is e2/r2. The gravitational force between them is Gmp me/r2. Their ratio is the dimensionless number e2/Gmpme. Its value is about 2 x 1039."
The following link explains the process in details:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/18-3-coulombs-law/#:~:text=The%20ratio%20of%20the%20magnitude,G%20%3D%202.27%20%C3%97%2010%2039%20. [nofollow]
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #32 on: 21/03/2022 19:40:26 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 21/03/2022 17:48:19
This is an assumption of the preview. If there is a minimum value for the physical quantities action, charge and temperature, then maybe some other physical quantities may be minimally limited too.
That may or may not be true.  But there is no reason to think this is true :
The Hubble constant H (of dimension T-1) would correspond to the minimum frequency:
fmin = H.
« Last Edit: 21/03/2022 19:42:55 by Origin »
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #33 on: 21/03/2022 19:53:55 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 21/03/2022 17:37:26
However, the SI unit of H0 is simply s−1, and the SI unit for the reciprocal of H0 is simply the second.
That's nice, but the bottom line here is treating the Hubble constant like a frequency and multiplying it by Planck's constant is meaningless.
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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #34 on: 21/03/2022 20:10:45 »
Quote from: Origin on 21/03/2022 19:53:55
That's nice, but the bottom line here is treating the Hubble constant like a frequency and multiplying it by Planck's constant is meaningless.
Once again, this is an assumption. If H is the minimum value for any physical quantity of dimension T-1, then this should apply to frequency as well. So there should exist a minimum frequency bounded by the same value.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #35 on: 21/03/2022 21:17:35 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 21/03/2022 20:10:45
If H is the minimum value for any physical quantity of dimension T-1
That is a mighty big if.  This all still just looks numerology with no basis in anything real.
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Offline PaulTalbot (OP)

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #36 on: 22/03/2022 18:14:18 »
Quote from: Origin on 21/03/2022 21:17:35
That is a mighty big if.  This all still just looks numerology with no basis in anything real.
I would like to deal with the numerology question first and then with the "big if" in a next post.
This kind of research looks like solving a puzzle, and yes, some numbers are involved in the process. It may thus be associated to a special kind of numerology, but there are strict rules to comply with:

1 - The assumed relations must comply with dimensional analysis, that is both sides of the equations must have the same dimension. Many questions have been posted on the subject, and it is OK. If you believe that some of the assumed relations do not comply with this rule, please let me know.

2 - The assumed relations should not conflict with already known and validated relations like E=mc2. The use of such equations is highly recommended.

3 - The use of dimensionless numbers like π, α (the fine structure constant) or β (the electrostatic to gravitational ratio) is allowed. The same rule applies to simple coefficients or exponents like 2 or ½. The use of complicated numbers like 127y59α must be justified or ideally avoided. I haven't read about this last rule, but it seems obvious to me.

4 - The assumed relations must comply with observation and ideally could allow some predictions that can be tested. This is part of the scientific process.

Do you agree with those rules?
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #37 on: 22/03/2022 19:47:26 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 22/03/2022 18:14:18
Do you agree with those rules?
Not really, the important point is to show that the equations actually correspond with a physical phenomena.
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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #38 on: 22/03/2022 22:05:23 »
Quote from: Origin on 22/03/2022 19:47:26
Not really, the important point is to show that the equations actually correspond with a physical phenomena.
And where does that rule come from?
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Re: Could the Hubble constant be related to the proton radius?
« Reply #39 on: 22/03/2022 23:54:46 »
Quote from: PaulTalbot on 22/03/2022 22:05:23
Quote from: Origin on 22/03/2022 19:47:26
Not really, the important point is to show that the equations actually correspond with a physical phenomena.
And where does that rule come from?
Common sense?  If the equations don't correspond to something physical then it is just math and not physics.
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